[jding26]

One of my buddies at work and Black are good buddies, so tha'ts why I'll root for him.

[jodka]

Originally Posted by humungusmma

They share an opponent: Keith Wisniewski. Black decisioned him, and Shinya nearly tore his arm off.

Aoki was doing a throw when the arm broke. I don't want to call it a fluke, but his intention with that wasn't to snap the arm. (not that he wasn't going to win anyway.)

Aoki is a stud, but am I the only one who thinks his build isn't meant for LW? He is very, very, lean even at WW. (though he is strong.) Cutting 10 more lbs. could seriously effect his strength. I am having a hard time picturing him at LW, Black seems like a better fit.

I think this fight is 50/50. Black looked shitty in his last fight, but he was coming back from a serious injury. Either way, it should be fun...Aoki does some fucking crazy shit. (and makes it work.)

[robbyp]

Originally Posted by jodka

Aoki was doing a throw when the arm broke. I don't want to call it a fluke, but his intention with that wasn't to snap the arm. (not that he wasn't going to win anyway.)

Aoki is a stud, but am I the only one who thinks his build isn't meant for LW? He is very, very, lean even at WW. (though he is strong.) Cutting 10 more lbs. could seriously effect his strength. I am having a hard time picturing him at LW, Black seems like a better fit.

I think this fight is 50/50. Black looked shitty in his last fight, but he was coming back from a serious injury. Either way, it should be fun...Aoki does some fucking crazy shit. (and makes it work.)

His intention actually was to bar the arm. That move is one of Shinya Aoki's specials that he teaches in all of his Jiu Jitsu videos and seminars.

It's kind of like Sakuraba's kimura to Renzo.

[Rob"the-reality]

aoki by arm triangle

[mysexisartsy]

Originally Posted by jodka

Aoki was doing a throw when the arm broke. I don't want to call it a fluke, but his intention with that wasn't to snap the arm. (not that he wasn't going to win anyway.)

While the goal of the wakigatame throw isn't to break the arm at the elbow, it is hardly an unexpected side effect, given the reputation the maneuver has garnered and the fact that it is prohibited in many many judo competitions because of the risk of injury.

Aoki is a stud, but am I the only one who thinks his build isn't meant for LW? He is very, very, lean even at WW. (though he is strong.) Cutting 10 more lbs. could seriously effect his strength. I am having a hard time picturing him at LW, Black seems like a better fit.

He really isn't going to be cutting a lot of weight. Aoki actually isn't very big for welterweight bulk wise, even though he's tall and lean. He almost always looks like that, even when not avidly training. To make 167 in Shooto, he basically just stays in shape, and maybe shaves a couple of pounds off. His blog had indiciated he's leaning down just a bit more leading up to the 160 pound fight, so it'll basically be the same deal, with him cutting maybe 5-8 pounds or so.

[jodka]

Originally Posted by mysexisartsy

While the goal of the wakigatame throw isn't to break the arm at the elbow, it is hardly an unexpected side effect, given the reputation the maneuver has garnered and the fact that it is prohibited in many many judo competitions because of the risk of injury.



He really isn't going to be cutting a lot of weight. Aoki actually isn't very big for welterweight bulk wise, even though he's tall and lean. He almost always looks like that, even when not avidly training. To make 167 in Shooto, he basically just stays in shape, and maybe shaves a couple of pounds off. His blog had indiciated he's leaning down just a bit more leading up to the 160 pound fight, so it'll basically be the same deal, with him cutting maybe 5-8 pounds or so.

My point on the arm was exactly that, it wasn't a submission attempt. I don't want to take anything away from him, he won fair and square with an awesome move and would have won without it. It just seems like a lot of people think that he is going to just go through the LW division breaking arms and taking names, and I don't think that is the case.

For the cutting weight issue, I could be wrong. I thought the same thing about Busta. Busta looked super lean at 205 and I thought he would die at 185...I was wrong. Aoki may not be cutting a ton of weight, but 10lbs. off of his frame could be tough. That said, I could be completely wrong...we'll know come fight day.

Still, I think the fight is maybe 60/40 Aoki. Black is a winner...that's what he does. It would not shock me one bit if Black won the fight.

[Hus2]

Ehh i would not underestimate Black, his record and 14 finishes out of 20 wins speak for them selfs. Hes a strong wrestler with a top mma team behind him plus this will be his second fight in Bushido at LW he will be better then last time.

But yahh Aoki will win but he will "earn" the victory, he wont just steam roll Balck.

[mysexisartsy]

Originally Posted by Hus2

Ehh i would not underestimate Black, Hes a strong wrestler with a top mma team behind him plus this will be his second fight in Bushido at LW he will be better then last time.

But yahh Aoki will win but he will "earn" the victory, he wont just steam roll Balck.

While I agree with all of this...

his record and 14 finishes out of 20 wins speak for them selfs.

This is not true. The four best fighters (not counting itty bitty Menjivar) he faced were Ray, Alessio, Wisniewski and and McKee. He's 3-0-1 against them, and should be 2-1-1, since the Alessio fight was a fullscale fucking robbery. More importantly, he has zero finishes in those fights.

While you can't underestimate the guy who finds a way to win, and the power of working with a great team, both of which Black has, his finishing rate certainly doesn't "speak for itself" on paper. Moreover, there is no way Black is going to submit the best grappler in Japan, and he hasn't really stopped anyone worth a shit with ground and pound.

So, while Black can certainly outmuscle and outwrestle Aoki on the mat, I don't think Black's finishing rate "speaks for itself", and moreover, his track record against guys half as talented as Aoki, like Ray and Wisniewski, indicate that Black isn't going to be able to really go buckwild.

[Kolchak]

I want to see Big Frog have a good fight, I'm looking forward to him vs Hioki.

[Hus2]

Originally Posted by mysexisartsy

While you can't underestimate the guy who finds a way to win, and the power of working with a great team, both of which Black has, his finishing rate certainly doesn't "speak for itself" on paper. Moreover, there is no way Black is going to submit the best grappler in Japan, and he hasn't really stopped anyone worth a shit with ground and pound.
.

Black could finish him by TKO, Aoki poses no Hunt or Nog like chin hes just like the rest of the normals. And these are Pride rules a strong wrestler with ground skill should be able to use them to his avantage.

Of couse a crafty sly mofo like Aoki cound/should use these same rules to pull a Anderson/Okami and win.

Plus cuting weight to fight in Pride has some major bad luck behind it, examples Igor, Kondo and Ninja theres a curse i tells yahh a curse, i call it the Saku curse.

I got Aoki winning (sub) but would not surprise me if Black wins it.