Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums

Go Back   Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums > Fight Discussion > The Heavyweights: UFC and WEC


The Heavyweights: UFC and WEC Discuss all Zuffa-related promotions: UFC, WEC and former Pride events here.

Reply
 
LinkBack (11) Thread Tools
Old 12-16-2007, 01:03 AM   #901 (permalink)

Blue Belt
 
RedState's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 530
This is really a great read, and I totally understand that BJ is an accomplished fighter, has done amazing things, and all but walks on water. However, only winning 2 out of his last 5 fights, with his most recent win being over Jens Pulver who is a 145'r is not grounds for a title shot against Joe Daddy and/or Sherk.

He had his chance against GSP and failed. He got a 2nd chance against Hughes and failed. How many chances does the guy get without having to earn a shot like everyone else?
RedState is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2007, 01:05 AM   #902 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,433
this post will be bumped for as long as sherdog is around, because people will always nuthug/talk shit about BJ and this does a good job of explaining why.
ImpactJM8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2007, 01:10 AM   #903 (permalink)

Yellow Belt
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: WA-HI
Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedState View Post
This is really a great read, and I totally understand that BJ is an accomplished fighter, has done amazing things, and all but walks on water. However, only winning 2 out of his last 5 fights, with his most recent win being over Jens Pulver who is a 145'r is not grounds for a title shot against Joe Daddy and/or Sherk.

He had his chance against GSP and failed. He got a 2nd chance against Hughes and failed. How many chances does the guy get without having to earn a shot like everyone else?
If you actually watched the GSP and Hughes fights you would STFU. There more to fights than a winner/loser.
__________________
BJ, Fedor and 'Page 08' !
“A focused, in-shape BJ Penn is the best pound-for-pound fighter in mixed martial arts." -Joe Rogan
ChopSteak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2007, 01:14 AM   #904 (permalink)

Blue Belt
 
RedState's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Colorado
Posts: 530
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopSteak View Post
If you actually watched the GSP and Hughes fights you would STFU. There more to fights than a winner/loser.
I did watch them, they were great fights, and I agree there are more to fights than winner/loser - but not when determining title fights.
RedState is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2007, 01:16 AM   #905 (permalink)
KNN
battle-scarred shogun
 
KNN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Carson CA
Posts: 4,502
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedState View Post
This is really a great read, and I totally understand that BJ is an accomplished fighter, has done amazing things, and all but walks on water. However, only winning 2 out of his last 5 fights, with his most recent win being over Jens Pulver who is a 145'r is not grounds for a title shot against Joe Daddy and/or Sherk.

He had his chance against GSP and failed. He got a 2nd chance against Hughes and failed. How many chances does the guy get without having to earn a shot like everyone else?
This thread is the reason why BJ gets title shots at will, the guy has some impressive achievements over his career, yet he hasn't done anything meaningful in MMA for quite some time now. BJ is the only fighter who is a million times better than his last fight.
KNN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2007, 01:16 AM   #906 (permalink)

Purple Belt
 
CKSnyder2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,919
Penn catches heat because he is rarely in shape. His coditioning is why he loses
__________________
Ken Shamrock is over rated!
Matt Hamill will not be champion, ever!
CKSnyder2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2007, 01:18 AM   #907 (permalink)

Orange Belt
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: bourbonnais, illinois
Posts: 316
That's some great info as to explaining to people why he's so highly regarded. Its funny how people say he recently lost to georges and matt so he's not that good and all. The fight with gsp was very close, and he was whoopin matt till he got hurt. His cardio has been worked on and much improved and I guarantee he's workin on it for january. He showed no fatigue at all in the fight with jens. I think we're gonna see the rise of bj penn again in 08.
__________________
"Someone sh*t on the coats!" - Dane Cook

"This is the best BJ we've ever seen!" - Joe Rogan
vinny s. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2007, 01:18 AM   #908 (permalink)

Green Belt
 
GaaraKazekage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,097
nicely written, but u exaggerated at some parts.
__________________
"I could make some impressive knockout videos too if you let me walk outside and just punch people and knock them out. Hey you, come fight! F*** we can make a highlight reel tomorrow … - Liddell
GaaraKazekage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2007, 01:20 AM   #909 (permalink)

Orange Belt
 
BLOCK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 441
great thread... I gained some respect for BJ... still wouldn't consider myself a fan of his tho, and I still hope Joe Daddy pounds him Is there a Machida vs BJ vid online..? link..? would love to see that.. <(even tho I don't like either of them)
__________________
BELFORT---SHOGUN---BABALU---ARONA
BLOCK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2007, 01:20 AM   #910 (permalink)

Blue Belt
 
MurphJJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Nouvelle-Ecosse
Posts: 672
Send a message via MSN to MurphJJ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Warheart View Post
I see a lot of newer fans (I'm not going to say TUF fans) who say that BJ is over-rated. I can even understand a little, because if i'd only been a fan for 2-3 years I may think the same thing.

So I am going to try not being condescending, and am actually going to try explaining to you why he is so highly regarded. I became a die-hard MMA fan about a year before his debut so I think I am in a good position for this.

Firstly, his BJJ game and credentials are as good as anybody in the game. This is why he is called the prodigy, the first US fighter to win the gold in Brazil.

So following his short and sensational career as a BJJ fighter he turned to MMA, and fans were already talking about him - before he had even fought. He was so highly regarded that his debut was in the UFC!

His opponent was Joey Gilbert, a gimme. BJ as expected dominated Gilbert.

Around this time Jens Pulver had just won the LW title, and the UFC was trying to get a superfight for him. So they brought in Din Thomas.

Din Thomas had fought all over the world, he was a known top class fighter and had stopped Jens Pulver previously. Not only that but he gave Caol Uno a hell of a fight in his only loss.

Din's UFC debut was against Penn. The vast majority of people thought that this was a gimme for Din before his big rematch with Jens, and in truth that was probably Zuffa's plans.

BJ Penn at only 22, and in only his second MMA fight KO'd Thomas in a couple of minutes. Trust my guys this was sensational at the time - Think Gonzaga-Cro Cop (only to a lesser extent because Thomas didn't have so many nut-huggers)

The next fight for BJ was probably to punish him for ruining the UFC's plans

It is hard to remember/believe, but at the time Uno was recognised as a top 3 fighter, and a guy who on his day could beat anybody in the world.

BJ Penn's destruction of Uno was probably the biggest 'coming-out party' in MMA history. He KO'd him in 11 seconds!

As an example could you imagine a 22 year old guy with only 2 fights destroying Gomi in 11 seconds?

That is what it was like.

I liken it to Sokoudjo this year, or Shogun in 2005. A metoric rise to fame like no other.

Uno had beaten Iha, Thomas, Sato twice and he had been overwhelmed in seconds by an in-experienced kid who was supposedly a grappler.

I remember the net at this time, and BJ Penn was probably the most talked about guy in the sport.

His next fight was with Pulver, a close decision loss. However he proved he was more than a match for the champion by having a picture-perfect armbar applied as the round ended.

Even though he lost he proved that he was no flash in the pan.

His next 3 fights were underwhelming, facing Creighton, Serra and Uno in lackluster affairs. The rematch with Uno was so controversial, and I still can not fathom how he didn't win the title in that fight. This gave fans sympathy for Penn.

At this time Penn was pissed, and vowed to prove that he was the number one guy in the world.

So he went out and on his own money put together a fight with unbeaten Takanori Gomi. You know how these days everybody makes threads "Who'd win Sherk or Kid Yamamoto?" etc

This was the same thing. A dream fight for fans between two guys in different organisations.

Unfortunately Gomi lost a decision to Hansen just over a month before the superfight, which made the fight anti-climatic.

It was still highly anticipated though, and Penn dominated Gomi. In a way which Gomi has never been dominated before or since. This is another easy thing to overlook, but directly after the Penn fight, Gomi signed for Pride and dominated for a couple of years. Just a testament to how good BJ truly is.

Following that Penn returned to the UFC and announced that he was going up in weight to fight Hughes.

Matt Hughes at that time was honestly viewed as Fedor is now. He was the top P4P guy in the world and was seen unbeatable.

Fans worldwide thought this was a huge mistake and there were threads on sherdog with titles such as 'RIP BJ' etc

What happened is the equivalent of Chuck Liddell moving to HW and dominating Fedor. It was unfathomable.

Writing this it is really hitting home how easy it is to forget the situations etc, how easy it is to downplay a win a few years later.

BJ lost a lot of fans with his next move - myself included. UFC warned him that as champion he could not fight in other organisations - he ignored them and went to K1.

Bang Ludwig was a rising superstar at the time, he was riding high with wins in his last two fights over Pulver and Sudo. Ludwig-Penn was the fight fans wanted to see, and they got it.

Like man vs boy, Bang was dominated and BJ Penn cemented his status as the P4P king.

In another of those easy to forget things, Rodrido Gracie was viewed as the next great Gracie. He was undefeated and coming off a huge win over Mach Sakurai.

When Penn announced he was moving up to MW to fight him people honest to god thought he was crazy.

He did though, and dominated the next great Gracie.

His next move was to crazy even for him. I remember when it was announced he moving to HW to fight undefeated sensation Machida there were people saying they were going to stop being fans of his because he was too ir-rational.

Fears were confirmed, and Penn lost. However it was a razor-thin decision that could easily have gone his way.

Think about it. Machida has dominated everybody he has fought, including brutal stoppages of Bonnar and Franklin, he is currently considered the biggest prospect in the LHW division. Yet he barely beat a guy fighting at least 50 pounds over his ideal weight. You guys still wanna say that BJ is over-rated?

I will not go into his next 3 fights because I assume that you guys know what happened.

Personally I groan everytime I read that Penn is over-rated. I he an MMA superstar, and one of the elite fighters of all time.

He has beaten 7 fighters who at the time were considered elite, Not only has he beaten them, he has dominated all but one (Serra)

Thomas
Uno
Serra
Ludwig
Gomi
Gracie
Hughes

So please next time you wanna type that Penn is over-rated, remember this post.

There is never an easier time to tell when a fan is uneducated, and when he explains that he doesn't know why Penn is so respected.
I couldn't possibly read ALL of this, but BJ is in it and he's the man so.. Kudos.
__________________
"AVERMAN!"
MurphJJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f2/all-newer-fans-why-bj-so-respected-585130/
Posted By For Type Date
UFC & MMA Discussion Thread - Page 48 - PbNation This thread Refback 07-08-2008 01:17 PM
UFC & MMA Discussion Thread - Page 48 - PbNation This thread Refback 07-08-2008 12:18 PM
To all newer fans - This is why BJ is so respected - Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums This thread Refback 06-06-2008 02:37 PM
CFZ Forums -> To all newer fans - This is why BJ is so respected This thread Refback 05-29-2008 07:52 PM
To all newer fans - This is why BJ is so respected - Page 4 - MMA News Forums This thread Pingback 05-28-2008 05:22 AM
To all newer fans - This is why BJ is so respected - MMA News Forums This thread Pingback 05-27-2008 10:43 PM
UFC 84: Ill Will - Page 5 - Rudius Media Message Board This thread Refback 05-06-2008 12:48 AM
UFC 84: Ill Will - Page 5 - Rudius Media Message Board This thread Refback 05-05-2008 05:19 PM
UFC 84: Ill Will - Page 5 - Rudius Media Message Board This thread Refback 05-05-2008 05:00 PM
UFC 84: Ill Will - Page 5 - Rudius Media Message Board This thread Refback 05-05-2008 02:44 PM
UFC 84: Ill Will - Page 5 - Rudius Media Message Board This thread Refback 05-05-2008 02:41 PM


Latest Threads



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:49 AM.

Sherdog.com Forum Rules Clear Cookies Social Groups Lost Password

Skin made by Alex. © iStyles.uni.cc Powered by vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 Sherdog.com | Privacy Policy | Click here to advertise on Sherdog