[BayAreaGuy]

http://www.all-creatures.org/cb/a-protein.html

Long article, here are the main points:

Several generations of school children and doctors were taught incorrectly that we need meat, dairy and eggs for protein. The meat, dairy and egg industries funded this "nutritional education" and it became U.S. government policy. Much of the evidence used to support the claim that animal products are ideal for meeting human protein needs was based on a now discredited experiment on rats conducted in 1914.

It may come as quite a shock to people trying to consume as much protein as possible to read in major medical journals and scientific reports that excess protein has been found to promote the growth of cancer cells and can cause liver and kidney disorders, digestive problems, gout, arthritis, calcium deficiencies (including osteoporosis) and other harmful mineral imbalances.

It has been known for decades that populations consuming high-protein, meat-based diets have higher cancer rates and lower life-spans (averaging as low as 30 to 40 years), compared to cultures subsisting on low-protein vegetarian diets (with average life-spans as high as 90 to 100 years).

The 6 and 8 percent figures are more than what most people need, and the higher percentages are intended as a margin of safety. But still, these recommendations are met by most fruits and greatly exceeded by most vegetables. For example, the percentage of calories provided by protein in spinach is 49%; broccoli 45%; cauliflower 40%; lettuce 34%; peas 30%; green beans 26%; cucumbers 24%; celery 21%; potatoes 11%; sweet potatoes 6%; honeydew 10%; cantaloupe 9%; strawberry 8%; orange 8%; watermelon 8%; peach 6%; pear 5%; banana 5%; pineapple 3%; and apple 1%. Considering these figures, any nutritionist would have to agree it is very easy for a vegetarian to get sufficient protein.

For example, the March 1983 Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that by age 65, the measurable bone loss of meat-eaters was five to six times worse than of vegetarians. The Aug. 22, 1984 issue of the Medical Tribune also found that vegetarians have "significantly stronger bones."

The problem is that cooking kills food and de-natures or re-arranges the molecular structure of the protein, causing amino acids to become coagulated, or fused together.

Dr. Norman W. Walker emphasizes there is a difference between atoms that are alive and atoms that are dead. Dr. Walker says heat from cooking kills and changes the vibration of the atoms that compose amino acids that compose protein that compose our body. In a human body, Dr. Walker notes that within six minutes after death, our atoms change their vibration and are no longer in a live, organic form. So the difference between cooked and raw protein is the difference between the life and death of the atoms that make up 15 percent of our body.

Dr. Walker writes: "Just as life is dynamic, magnetic, organic, so is death static, non-magnetic, inorganic. It takes life to beget life, and this applies to the atoms in our food. When the atoms in amino acids are live, organic atoms, they can function efficiently. When they are destroyed by the killing of the animal and the cooking of the food, the vital factors involving the atoms in the functions of the amino acids are lost."

6) Eating meat -- or protein in general -- does not give you strength, energy or stamina. One of the easiest ways to dispel the theory that meat is required for strength is to look at the animal kingdom. It is herbivores such as cattle, oxen, horses and elephants that have been known for strength and endurance. What carnivore has ever had the strength or endurance to be used as a beast of burden? The strongest animal on earth, for its size, is the silver-back gorilla, which is three times the size of man, but has 30 times our strength. These gorillas "eat nothing but fruit and bamboo leaves and can turn your car over if they want to," the Diamonds note in Living Health. It would be hard to argue anyone needs meat for strength.

And protein does not give us energy. Protein is for building cells. Fuel for providing our cells with energy comes from the glucose and carbohydrates of fruits and vegetables.

Robbins writes, "True, we need protein to replace enzymes, rebuild blood cells, grow hair, produce antibodies, and to fulfill certain other specific tasks... (But) study after study has found that protein combustion is no higher during exercise than under resting conditions. This is why (vegetarian) Dave Scott can set world records for the triathlon without consuming lots of protein. And why Sixto Linares can swim 4.8 miles, cycle 185 miles, and run 52.4 miles in a single day without meat, dairy products, eggs, or any kind of protein supplement in his diet.

"There is little evidence that muscular activity increases the need for protein."

Protein requires more energy to digest than any other type of food. In Your Health, Your Choice, Dr. Ted Morter, Jr. writes: "Protein is a negative energy food. Protein is credited with being an energy-producer. However, energy is used to digest it, and energy is needed to neutralize the excess acid ash it leaves. Protein uses more energy than it generates. It is a negative energy source."

Our body needs protein from raw foods, because the building blocks for our living cells need to be living instead of dead. Cooked protein contains mutagens that are hazardous to our health, and some nutritional experts say cooked protein is impossible or very difficult to digest. Cooked meat is not a good source of protein. And protein has nothing to do with strength, energy or stamina.

Randy Couture is even on that kind of alkine diet and says you don't need that much protien. He mainly eats greens and stuff like almonds and sometimes fish.

[-Rottweiler-]

Right on man, a website made by animal rights activists and vegetarians sounds like a great source of information about a nutrient that is primarily derived from animal sources.

For example, the March 1983 Journal of Clinical Nutrition found that by age 65, the measurable bone loss of meat-eaters was five to six times worse than of vegetarians.

The average meat eater has about five to six times more muscle mass to begin with than the average vegetarian I know.

[BayAreaGuy]

Originally Posted by -Rottweiler-

Right on man, a website made by animal rights activists and vegetarians sounds like a great source of information about a nutrient that is primarily derived from animal sources.



The average meat eater has about five to six times more muscle mass to begin with than the average vegetarian I know.

Yeah, but then again most vegaterians aren't intersted in having big strong muscles. Meat eaters do however.

And like I said, look at Couture's body and what he can do in the cage. He's even credited eating a crap load of vegtables as turning back the age clock for him.

[MikeMartial]

That's an insanely weak article from a highly biased source.

You want a killer article on the ever-lasting protein requirement debate?

Here: http://www.performancemenu.com/resou...teinDebate.php

Download the .pdf file, read, and digest. Then you'll have some actual information versus propaganda.

[BayAreaGuy]

Originally Posted by MikeMartial

That's an insanely weak article from a highly biased source.

You want a killer article on the ever-lasting protein requirement debate?

Here: http://www.performancemenu.com/resou...teinDebate.php

Download the .pdf file, read, and digest. Then you'll have some actual information versus propaganda.

The article I posted doesn't say protien is bad, it's saying you need it for sure. But protien from a source like cooked animal meat is fairly low quality because a lot of the cells are denaturalized. It's also acidic.

No one can argue that cooking food at high heat denatrualizes it and destroys a lot of its nutrients. Protien can be found in fruits/greens, and in almonds and seeds. All the nutrients and living enzymes are completly in tact.

[tical13]

Bahahahahahhaa

[GJJNY]

Originally Posted by BayAreaGuy

Yeah, but then again most vegaterians aren't intersted in having big strong muscles. Meat eaters do however.

And like I said, look at Couture's body and what he can do in the cage. He's even credited eating a crap load of vegtables as turning back the age clock for him.

OK, but now we're comparing extremes. The average vegan/vegetarian eats like garbage, I know because I used to be one for over 10 years. The diet is usually loaded with carbs, and low in protein. The diet of a strict carnivore for humans is also terrible in the long and short term.

Let's look at the sensible middle ground, someone who has a great diet consuming protein from animal and plant sources, someone who has a diet rich in vegetables, healthy fats, etc. I think we'd find their health will be better in the long term than someone who half asses ANY diet, omnivore or vegetarian.

And that website is so biased its sad.

[-Rottweiler-]

What does Couture mean when he says that "you don't need that much protein"? Maybe he's referring to the very high amounts of protein some athletes eat, like 2 grams per pound of bodyweight. It wouldn't surprise me if all he's really saying is that 1 g/lbs is enough (or something like that).

Personally, I currently aim for about 1.5 grams per kilogram, and I consider that a high-protein diet.

[erco]

Originally Posted by BayAreaGuy

Yeah, but then again most vegaterians aren't intersted in having big strong muscles. Meat eaters do however.

And like I said, look at Couture's body and what he can do in the cage. He's even credited eating a crap load of vegtables as turning back the age clock for him.

What did Randy eat to get to his current muscle mass?

A lot of the information in there is bogus as all hell though. Protein isn't an energy source? My favorite part is how they try to spin that protein being negative calories as a bad thing.

Horribly biased and inaccurate information.

[erco]

Originally Posted by BayAreaGuy

The article I posted doesn't say protien is bad, it's saying you need it for sure. But protien from a source like cooked animal meat is fairly low quality because a lot of the cells are denaturalized. It's also acidic.

No one can argue that cooking food at high heat denatrualizes it and destroys a lot of its nutrients. Protien can be found in fruits/greens, and in almonds and seeds. All the nutrients and living enzymes are completly in tact.

"Denaturalizes?"

WTF.

You have got to be kidding me.

First off, it's denatures, as in what happens during denaturation. It's a term for when proteins lose their tertiary and quaternary structure. Quaternary structure being composed of an aggregation of tertiary structure, which is essentially a folded/collapsed chain held together by disulfide bonds. All of which has little to no bearing on actual Amino Acid content or quality of the protein. Denaturation is frequently a good thing, it makes protein more biologically available, aka, easier for us to absorb. A classic example of this phenonomena occurs with eggs. Raw eggs are inferior to cooked eggs because the denatured albumin is easier for our body to digest and absorb, yielding more absorbed protein.