The thing about herbs is this: - Page 2

Rjkd12 · 02-10-2006, 02:47 PM

KK, don't forget about real studies to elucidate pathyways or other things more "pure" and companies latch on to that stuff and say "XXX supplement can cure cancer!"

Two quick examples. One was chromium picollinate. Scientists gave chromium deficient people oral chromium to see if it would help these obese people lose weight. It was partly to look at does oral chromium work, and to look into some of the pathways of how it works. A supp company caught wind of the study and started marketing chromium picolinate for weight loss.

Second was many "testosterone boosting" products. Many of these are given to overectomized rats or post menapausal women. When it raises testosterone the supp companies catch wind and then start marketing the drug. This is very popular.Is this bad science or bad marketing? Who gets the bad rep? Science. People say, "Every week they come up with something new" Yeah, well maybe you should realize that every individual study isn't meant as gospel and shoudln't be read that way.

Wolverine · 02-10-2006, 02:54 PM

Nice post KK!

In your opinion who sells the best quality Tribulus Terrestris?

Thanks!

Wolverine
///

**Mr. Sinister** · 02-10-2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

KK, don't forget about real studies to elucidate pathyways or other things more "pure" and companies latch on to that stuff and say "XXX supplement can cure cancer!"

Two quick examples. One was chromium picollinate. Scientists gave chromium deficient people oral chromium to see if it would help these obese people lose weight. It was partly to look at does oral chromium work, and to look into some of the pathways of how it works. A supp company caught wind of the study and started marketing chromium picolinate for weight loss.

Second was many "testosterone boosting" products. Many of these are given to overectomized rats or post menapausal women. When it raises testosterone the supp companies catch wind and then start marketing the drug. This is very popular.Is this bad science or bad marketing? Who gets the bad rep? Science. People say, "Every week they come up with something new" Yeah, well maybe you should realize that every individual study isn't meant as gospel and shoudln't be read that way.

I never forgot that. It's illustrated in the "Why Cheaper is never better" thread. Regulation of dicks like that is absolutely called for.

Quote:

In your opinion who sells the best quality Tribulus Terrestris?

We have ONE Tribulus in our store, Bulgarian in-nature. I forget who the Hell the Company that sells it is. But I'll find out tomorrow.

BoxingFanNoMore · 02-10-2006, 03:00 PM

I would like to add that this can go both ways, some herbs get promoted by naturalists and in some cases produce absolutely no effect and can even cause harm.

For example take a look at the herb saw Palmetto that has been in the news recently, this herb was promoted as natural remedy for enlarged prostate, male pattern baldness, and is usually included in testosterone boosters.

I gurantee if you pick of a natural cures book, saw palmetto will be listed multiple times. As a little experiment I went to amazon.com searched for natural health, the first book listed was this one

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/061...Fencoding=UTF8

used google book search and sure enough this book is quoted as

"This remedy protects the prostate from the irritating effects of testosterone and, by promoting shrinkage of the gland, improves urinary function (a mechanism similar to that of the much more expensive pharmaceutical drug finasteride [proscar]). Saw Palmetto is non-toxic, and you can stay on it indeffinately."

This herb is getting directly compared to proscar(used for enlarged prostates) in this book and many others, well proscar is also commonly known as propecia(used for male pattern baldness) in smaller doses. This herb somehow got associated with fighting hair loss as well. Which caused many people to switch from a proven drug to a non proven herb, which does not work at all.

To this day I dont know why people take this herb, people tell me they get testicular pain, anal bleeding while trying it, but yet it still gets promoted as a natural alternative to proscar.

And to add to Rjkd12's point, take a look at this recent article about the study just published on Saw Palmetto in the New England Journal of Medicine.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Surgery/...fc=101&spc=230

They go so far as to try to replicate the smell and taste for the placebo used, to try to get a better controlled study. I havent read the actual study but it sounds like it was done very well, and UC San Fransico usually does pretty bulletproof research.

Wolverine · 02-10-2006, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Kabuki

We have ONE Tribulus in our store, Bulgarian in-nature. I forget who the Hell the Company that sells it is. But I'll find out tomorrow.

Is it by Ulitmate Nutrition? I saw one by them called "Bulgarian Tribulus" that has over 45% steroidal sponins.

Let me know if this is the one.

Thanks!

Wolverine
///

**Mr. Sinister** · 02-10-2006, 03:05 PM

Quote:

I would like to add that this can go both ways, some herbs get promoted by naturalists and in some cases produce absolutely no effect and can even cause harm.

For example take a look at the herb saw Palmetto that has been in the news recently, this herb was promoted as natural remedy for enlarged prostate, male pattern baldness, and is usually included in testosterone boosters.

I gurantee if you pick of a natural cures book, saw palmetto will be listed multiple times. As a little experiment I went to amazon.com searched for natural health, the first book listed was this one

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/061...Fencoding=UTF8

used google book search and sure enough this book is quoted as

"This remedy protects the prostate from the irritating effects of testosterone and, by promoting shrinkage of the gland, improves urinary function (a mechanism similar to that of the much more expensive pharmaceutical drug finasteride [proscar]). Saw Palmetto is non-toxic, and you can stay on it indeffinately."

This herb is getting directly compared to proscar(used for enlarged prostates) in this book and many others, well proscar is also commonly known as propecia(used for male pattern baldness) in smaller doses. This herb somehow got associated with fighting hair loss as well. Which caused many people to switch from a proven drug to a non proven herb, which does not work at all.

To this day I dont know why people take this herb, people tell me they get testicular pain, anal bleeding while trying it, but yet it still gets promoted as a natural alternative to proscar.

And to add to Rjkd12's point, take a look at this recent article about the study just published on Saw Palmetto in the New England Journal of Medicine.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Surgery/...fc=101&spc=230

They go so far as to try to replicate the smell and taste for the placebo used, to try to get a better controlled study. I havent read the actual study but it sounds like it was done very well, and UC San Fransico usually does pretty bulletproof research.

lol I was waiting for you to post in one of the two threads I started.

So far by the FDA (which sometimes actually hits the nail on the head, but it's very rare), the only thing they allow the stamp of approval on in regards to assisting with prostate problems is Lycopene.

Funny you mentioned Saw Palmetto, because I tried it (wanted to take something preventitively) and people come in with DOCTOR'S notes instructing them to purchase it. But I became alarmed at how many times I was urinating in a day. It was crazy. Like literally every 10 minutes. And one of the signs of prostate ELARGEMENT is frequent urinating. Common sense told me to quit taking the shit. And I'm buying a bottle of lycopene soon.

**Chad Hamilton** · 02-10-2006, 03:09 PM

So what's to be done about the misinformation given to the masses, King?

**Mr. Sinister** · 02-10-2006, 03:18 PM

Off with corporate heads!!

**Chad Hamilton** · 02-10-2006, 03:46 PM

Right on!

No, here's what we do:

I spread the word in DC and all through Montgomery Co. MD with my Jim Jones like charisma, and you spread it through South Florida with your 1-2 and knealing muay thai elbow to the liver.

You in?

BoxingFanNoMore · 02-10-2006, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Kabuki

lol I was waiting for you to post in one of the two threads I started.

So far by the FDA (which sometimes actually hits the nail on the head, but it's very rare), the only thing they allow the stamp of approval on in regards to assisting with prostate problems is Lycopene.

Funny you mentioned Saw Palmetto, because I tried it (wanted to take something preventitively) and people come in with DOCTOR'S notes instructing them to purchase it. But I became alarmed at how many times I was urinating in a day. It was crazy. Like literally every 10 minutes. And one of the signs of prostate ELARGEMENT is frequent urinating. Common sense told me to quit taking the shit. And I'm buying a bottle of lycopene soon.

Funny thing is about your other thread. If you look at the price of finasteride.

Proscar (5 mg finasteride)
Propecia (1 mg finasteride)

You will notice quite the price difference in $/mg. So it just goes to show you price isnt always tied to quality, here you have the exact same thing in which a lower dosage is more expensive just because they can market it to people with some vanity issues.

But what would you expect, from drug companies. Charging more for the same thing is there MO.