[erco]

Originally Posted by hardheart

What I'm thinking is less from what I've read and more from I dunno...common fucking sense. Your body needs time to clean the garbage out and it can't do that if you don't stop supplementing. Is that difficult to understand? Do you need years and millions of dollars worth of studies to back that simple idea up?

Why are you ingesting garbage to begin with?

Common sense isn't very common, nor is it very sensible. Personally, I prefer fact and logic based arguments, the kind that's completely absent in your post.

Creatine is fine, you don't have to cycle it. Do you cycle your consumption of meat? If not, then you're not really cycling creatine.

[evilf22]

Originally Posted by hardheart

What I'm thinking is less from what I've read and more from I dunno...common fucking sense. Your body needs time to clean the garbage out and it can't do that if you don't stop supplementing. Is that difficult to understand? Do you need years and millions of dollars worth of studies to back that simple idea up?

i agree with you about cycling on things that you dont naturally consume, like esterfied creatine, melatonin, stimulants, etc... you have to remember that creatine monohydrate is naturally occuring in most meats anyways. your body is used to having a constant supply of creatine. the only thing i cycle on and off of is melatonin and ZMA 3 months on/ 1 off. to each his own though. i use multi, greens, fish oil, arginine, and protein powders year round.

[erco]

Originally Posted by evilf22

i agree with you about cycling on things that you dont naturally consume, like esterfied creatine, melatonin, stimulants, etc... you have to remember that creatine monohydrate is naturally occuring in most meats anyways. your body is used to having a constant supply of creatine. the only thing i cycle on and off of is melatonin and ZMA 3 months on/ 1 off. to each his own though. i use multi, greens, fish oil, arginine, and protein powders year round.

Why would you cycle ZMA?

[Sledge Hammer]

Originally Posted by hardheart

What I'm thinking is less from what I've read and more from I dunno...common fucking sense. Your body needs time to clean the garbage out and it can't do that if you don't stop supplementing. Is that difficult to understand? Do you need years and millions of dollars worth of studies to back that simple idea up?

What's difficult for me to understand is how you think your "common sense" is greater than what researchers have proven to be an incorrect assertion. there is no need to cycle creatine.

your common sense < years of reasearch

is that difficult to understand?

[PencilDick]

i find that by "cycling" some things i get better gains from them. I feel like my body gets used to a certain supplement and then when i get off it i can push to stay at the same level, then get back on it and see better gains...

And of course no supplement company wants to tell you to cycle the largest selling supplement besides protein...

and 90% of people dont drink enough water to really flush and keep everything as healthy as it should be

[Sonny]

My understanding was that extensive creatine usage does indeed have an effect on how much the body produces on it's own. However, this effect is reversed once creatine supplementation is stopped.

MikeMartial has been taking creatine everyday for a couple of years. Same with John Berardi. It's safe, however I don't see anything wrong with cycling it either.

[evilf22]

Originally Posted by erco

Why would you cycle ZMA?

personal preference really. i find if i use it steadily for too long i rely on it to be able to sleep. plus you get some crazy ass dreams if you constantly take it. same with melatonin. love/hate the crazy ass dreams you get with the two combined though. last night i had a dream where i got stabbed by my ex-girlfriend who i was trying to get back together with. to prove i wasn't going to treat her like shit again, i let her stab me in stomach over and over and just took it. later in the same dream aliens attacked and the world ended up being one huge riot. i was walking down the street with my best friend and his girlfriend. she got hit by a guy on a motorcycle. i then proceeded to beat her to death after she got hit because he wanted to break up with her anyways.... WTF.

[hardheart]

Originally Posted by Sledge Hammer

What's difficult for me to understand is how you think your "common sense" is greater than what researchers have proven to be an incorrect assertion. there is no need to cycle creatine.

your common sense < years of reasearch

is that difficult to understand?

You go ahead and show me a bona fide research publication that says people shouldn't cycle their supplements, specifically creatine.

You're fucking retarded if you think you don't need to stop putting in un-natural substances in to your body so that you can have time to detox and recover. Sure, creatine naturally occurs and your body stores and produces it in small amounts, great good stuff. Not in the quantities that you supplement. Not even close. The same reason you should cycle off creatine is the same reason your should cycle off gear, because if you don't you run the risk of eliminating your body's natural production of said substance.

Seriously, what the hell are they teaching kids in school these days? Just because something is a naturally occurring substance does not mean it can not be bad. Too much of anything can be a bad thing. Being a critical thinker and searching for the facts and truth is great and all, but sometimes you just gotta stop and think for yourself.

[hardheart]

Originally Posted by erco

Why are you ingesting garbage to begin with?

Common sense isn't very common, nor is it very sensible. Personally, I prefer fact and logic based arguments, the kind that's completely absent in your post.

Creatine is fine, you don't have to cycle it. Do you cycle your consumption of meat? If not, then you're not really cycling creatine.

I'm not intaking much in the way of garbage per se, it's more or less what my body does with it once it's in there that turns said substances to garbage requiring them to be filtered out, in this specific instance creatinin.

[Sledge Hammer]

Originally Posted by hardheart

You go ahead and show me a bona fide research publication that says people shouldn't cycle their supplements, specifically creatine.

You're fucking retarded if you think you don't need to stop putting in un-natural substances in to your body so that you can have time to detox and recover. Sure, creatine naturally occurs and your body stores and produces it in small amounts, great good stuff. Not in the quantities that you supplement. Not even close. The same reason you should cycle off creatine is the same reason your should cycle off gear, because if you don't you run the risk of eliminating your body's natural production of said substance.

Seriously, what the hell are they teaching kids in school these days? Just because something is a naturally occurring substance does not mean it can not be bad. Too much of anything can be a bad thing. Being a critical thinker and searching for the facts and truth is great and all, but sometimes you just gotta stop and think for yourself.

1: Mol Cell Biochem. 2003 Feb;244(1-2):95-104. Links

Long-term creatine supplementation does not significantly affect clinical markers of health in athletes.
Kreider RB, Melton C, Rasmussen CJ, Greenwood M, Lancaster S, Cantler EC, Milnor P, Almada AL.
Exercise and Sport Nutrition Laboratory, Department of Human Movement Sciences and Education, The University of Memphis, Memphis, TN, USA. Richard_Kreider@baylor.edu
Creatine has been reported to be an effective ergogenic aid for athletes. However, concerns have been raised regarding the long-term safety of creatine supplementation. This study examined the effects of long-term creatine supplementation on a 69-item panel of serum, whole blood, and urinary markers of clinical health status in athletes. Over a 21-month period, 98 Division IA college football players were administered in an open label manner creatine or non-creatine containing supplements following training sessions. Subjects who ingested creatine were administered 15.75 g/day of creatine monohydrate for 5 days and an average of 5 g/day thereafter in 5-10 g/day doses. Fasting blood and 24-h urine samples were collected at 0, 1, 1.5, 4, 6, 10, 12, 17, and 21 months of training. A comprehensive quantitative clinical chemistry panel was determined on serum and whole blood samples (****bolic markers, muscle and liver enzymes, electrolytes, lipid profiles, hematological markers, and lymphocytes). In addition, urine samples were quantitatively and qualitative analyzed to assess clinical status and renal function. At the end of the study, subjects were categorized into groups that did not take creatine (n = 44) and subjects who took creatine for 0-6 months (mean 4.4 +/- 1.8 months, n = 12), 7-12 months (mean 9.3 +/- 2.0 months, n = 25), and 12-21 months (mean 19.3 +/- 2.4 months, n = 17). Baseline and the subjects' final blood and urine samples were analyzed by MANOVA and 2 x 2 repeated measures ANOVA univariate tests. MANOVA revealed no significant differences (p = 0.51) among groups in the 54-item panel of quantitative blood and urine markers assessed. Univariate analysis revealed no clinically significant interactions among groups in markers of clinical status. In addition, no apparent differences were observed among groups in the 15-item panel of qualitative urine markers. Results indicate that long-term creatine supplementation (up to 21-months) does not appear to adversely effect markers of health status in athletes undergoing intense training in comparison to athletes who do not take creatine.
PMID: 12701816 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]