[Tap112]

Awesome.

I like Berardi's article about post-workout nutrition:

http://www.topendsports.com/nutrition/simplesteps.htm

[Madmick]

Originally Posted by Tap112

Awesome.

I like Berardi's article about post-workout nutrition:

http://www.topendsports.com/nutrition/simplesteps.htm

That's a great article Tap. Currently I'm on a 3:1 ratio, but I'm seeing that 2:1 more and more, and would recommend it to anyone. I'll try a switch but I have to be more disciplined and control the variables in my diet for at least a month on each in order to see which produces better results for me.

But anywhere in the 1:1 to 3:1 range of carbs/protein I think works. This is one of those reasons I don't recommend Endurox R4 as a recovery drink for anaerobic exercise; for aerobic recovery, it's probably the optimal ratio, but even the high-carb advocates' literature doesn't go above 3:1 for immediate recovery.

Also, he points out that one should prioritize carbs around the post-workout period. On days involving anaerobic exercise (weight lifting, speed training, plyometrics, etc.) I also reduce my carbs before exercise; however, before days where my "workout" involves aerobic conditioning, I eat a meal rich in low-GI carbs 2-4 hours prior to the exercise. I use the same ratio of carbs:protein both aerobic and anaerobic exercise PWO (since my chosen ratio is already so high in carbs).

But this is an important distinction I'm having difficulty learning. To what degree do PWO nutriton needs differ between anaerobic and aerobic exercise? The example in this article was a basketball workout, which includes both, so it doesn't help. He does mention that for endurance athletes, he doubles the portion, but I want to see more explanation as to why the ratios would be the same for athletes taxing different energy systems. Strength/Power athletes don't rest the same as Endurance athletes; it makes sense they shouldn't eat the same, either, at least superficially it does.

Take Eric Cressey for example. He thinks the nutritional community is on crack because they don't believe in ketogenic diets for powerlifters (as an aside, it seems many powerlifters couldn't give a damn about nutrition...in one article I read where the author visited Westside for a workout, at one point, he asked Louie Simmons about nutritition: Louie rolled his eyes and walked away).

But "lightweight" powerlifters have to consider weight: relative strength, not absolute strength, is their goal. I think a powerlifter can get away on a lower amount of carbs. Some of the literature I've read would disagree with me here, but guys like Cressey tell me those people are in a bubble, and that the champs in the real world have operated on these diets. I don't see a huge problem.

When I ate high-carb and did heavy lifting but was too lazy to condition, I got strong, but I got fat. When I went on the 40-30-30 split (I don't consider this a "ketogenic") I didn't notice a difference at all in recovery, but I wasn't bloated all the time.

I don't think athletes, particularly fighters, could get away with the same diet. I think you need high carb. But what degree does the distribution of intensity to one or the other affect dietary requirements?

I'm still in the dark on this one.

[Madmick]

Maybe it's covered in "Nutrient Timing", I really should get that book.

[Tap112]

I've read most of that book, about a year ago though. I was trying to find it the other day when we were talking about this before. It's co-authored by Robert Portman, Ph.D., the founder of PacificHealth Laboratories Inc. - the company that produces endurox r4. So you are probably going to read a lot about 4:1 in there (if I recall correctly).

You bring up good points about the difference between powerlifters and endurance athletes. These two athletes are obviously going to have different goals, different diets, and different training methods. Although both are going to be depleting their muscle glycogen stores, why would they not have different requirements post-exercise?

Berardi does discuss this somewhat:
http://www.athletes.com/fun/berardi34.htm

The thing is that most of us on here are involved with a form of fighting in one way or the other. We are neither powerlifters or marathon runners. We need to walk a fine line in between.

I am going to go with my own mix for more of a 3:1 to 2:1 with creatine for after weight lifting sessions (so say 70g dextrose 25g protein 10g creatine - cut out the creatine if you are cutting, of course). For after an endurance workout/training session Im going to go with something like endurox or just 2 servings of gatorade with a scoop of protein powder.

The thing is, with so many other factors, it seems to me that it would be nearly impossible to tell if I was getting better results on a 2:1 or a 4:1. I believe that supplementation is really only 5%-10% of the equation. The rest is nutrition/diet and training, so I try not to drive myself crazy about stuff like this. As long as you are putting some sort of carbohydrate-protein recovery liquid into your body post-exercise, Id say you're fine.

[Madmick]

TTT.

Added the second installment.

[supersudo]

regarding the coconut oil.. read up on it here:

http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/


it contains caprylic acid (kinda like an anti-bacterial/fungal agent) and lauric acid (boosts immune system) as well as MCT's.. it boosts ****bolism much like fish oil bcuz of the good fats and that's why ppl in the tropics aren't fat..

the catch is u need to get the oil cold-pressed and unrefined... if it's refined or processed then there is nothing good about it..

[sasquatch989]

Originally Posted by supersudo

regarding the coconut oil.. read up on it here:

http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/


it contains caprylic acid (kinda like an anti-bacterial/fungal agent) and lauric acid (boosts immune system) as well as MCT's.. it boosts ****bolism much like fish oil bcuz of the good fats and that's why ppl in the tropics aren't fat..

the catch is u need to get the oil cold-pressed and unrefined... if it's refined or processed then there is nothing good about it..

Dude, when was the last time you were in the tropics? I lived in Samoa and the lot of them were fat as fuck. What the lot of them did possess, however, is incredible athletic ability. If the Mormons didn't have them by the balls you would see alot more Polynesians in the NFL. Anyway. Not too many were lean and mean. Part of it is because they eat a shit ton of swine (which is not indigenous to the islands) and what is known as poi (or taro root). It is the grey potato-like starch which has a mild steroid in it. Don't wonder why, but Samoans had small dicks because of it. Coconut oil (along with palm oil) is not very good for you. I could see it as a very small part of a diet for the same reasons you spoke of but do not assume that the advertisements for Americans to visit the islands really reflects the health and appearance of the majority of islanders. If people in some tropics aren't fat it's probably because they are hella poor or something.

[Madmick]

Originally Posted by sasquatch989

Dude, when was the last time you were in the tropics? I lived in Samoa and the lot of them were fat as fuck. What the lot of them did possess, however, is incredible athletic ability. If the Mormons didn't have them by the balls you would see alot more Polynesians in the NFL. Anyway. Not too many were lean and mean. Part of it is because they eat a shit ton of swine (which is not indigenous to the islands) and what is known as poi (or taro root). It is the grey potato-like starch which has a mild steroid in it. Don't wonder why, but Samoans had small dicks because of it. Coconut oil (along with palm oil) is not very good for you. I could see it as a very small part of a diet for the same reasons you spoke of but do not assume that the advertisements for Americans to visit the islands really reflects the health and appearance of the majority of islanders. If people in some tropics aren't fat it's probably because they are hella poor or something.

There was some cool stuff in your post, but nothing about caprylic or lauric acid or MCT's.

Do you know what MCT's are? They are a saturated fat, so it makes the coconut look worse than it is.

[brother shamus]

Originally Posted by supersudo

regarding the coconut oil.. read up on it here:

http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/


it contains caprylic acid (kinda like an anti-bacterial/fungal agent) and lauric acid (boosts immune system) as well as MCT's.. it boosts ****bolism much like fish oil bcuz of the good fats and that's why ppl in the tropics aren't fat..

the catch is u need to get the oil cold-pressed and unrefined... if it's refined or processed then there is nothing good about it..

i buy unrefined coconut oil from time to time but i think it's probably better to go to the source and just eat coconuts. whole foods sell young coconuts/water coconuts but i think they're about $2.50 each. if you go to your local chinatown/asian specialty market you can probably get them a lot cheaper. the place i get them from in chinatown sells them for $.99 each.

[Chad Hamilton]

I use coconut oil for many things.

And "dude", it doesn't make you fat.