Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums

Go Back   Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums > Training Discussion > Dieting / Supplement Discussion


Dieting / Supplement Discussion You eat like a pig. You'll never be a champion if you stuff yourself with that slop. Get in here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-08-2009, 02:34 PM   #251 (permalink)

Orange Belt
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmick View Post
What is a Nootropic?
In a nutshell, a nootropic is a substance that will increase the availability/utilization of acetylcholine in the brain (acetylcholine is a chemical transmitter in the peripheral and central nervous systems)- theoretically improving performance potential (i.e. the ability to lift heavier weights with the same muscle mass). Some are precursors to acetylcholine (Choline, DMAE); some increase celluar fluid around the membrane; some inhibit the enzyme that breaks acetylcholine down (Huperzine A); some enhance cholinergic reception (Racetams); some simply increase blood flow to the brain (Ginkgo Biloba, Vinpocetine). But nearly all the supplements mentioned here operate for the same end-goal: to improve acetylcholine transmission. Perhaps the most enticing aspect of these supplements to athletes is that- unlike with stimulants- the body does not adapt and diminish in sensitivity to them over extended periods of usage. Nootropics also may be useful in CNS recovery.


Primer: check out this page:
http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys5/smrtdrgs.htm
http://www.antiaging-systems.com/extract/nootr.htm
On this page, find the chart ranking the nootropics (the chart is controversial, but useful):
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.p...=0&#entry37508

For a detailed overview of the nootropic agents and their effects, check here:
Judo Kid's Complete Nootropic Guide

Notes on Purchasing:
Unless otherwise specified, all prices are for Bulk Nutrition aka 1fast400. The only item mentioned unavailable for purchase there is the Natrol Memory Complex. For the premium formula, a superior substitute for the Lecithin would be 2-3 bottles of Greens+, but that alone will run you $70-$90 (however, taking Greens+ is like taking another supplement altogether, and a more necessary one than a neurotransmitter; nevertheless, it may inhibit some of the tyrosine's effects). Also, I'm not fully comfortable recommending NOW supplements given their reputation among users, but I still don't know if that reputation is concretely warranted, and I did this to make the purchasing of the stack as convenient as possible.

Premium Custom Nootropic Formula
1) NOW Foods, Lecithin (97% Phosphatides - NGE), 1 lb, $7
2) 1fast400, L-Tyrosine Powder, 250g, $12
3) 1fast400, DMAE Powder, 100g, $5
4) 1fast400, Piracetam Powder, 250g, $10
5) Natrol, Memory Complex#, 3 x 60 Tabs, $22.5*
*Price for "Value Nutrition Store"
#Includes: B-Vitamin Complex, Gingko Biloba (120mg), Huperzine A (100mg), Lecithin (100mg), Phosphatidylserine (15mg), Vinpocetine (10mg)
Total Cost: $55
Total Servings: 90
Price/Serving: $0.61

Note: If money really isn't an issue, you might consider replacing the piracetam with aniracetam/oxiracetam and the Lecithin with Alpha GPC.

How Much to Use in Mixtures:
1) All
2) All
3) All
4) All
5) 2 Tablets per Serving

Inexpensive Power Drive Imitation Formula
1) NOW Foods, B-50 (Vitamin) Complex, 4 oz, $9
2) 1fast400, DMAE, 2 x 100g, $10
3) 1fast400, L-Tyrosine, 500g, $20
4) NOW Foods, Lecithin (97% Phosphatides - NGE), 2 x 1 lb, $14
Total Cost: $53
Total Servings: 200 servings
Price/Serving: $0.27


How Much to Use in Mixture:
1) All
2) All
3) All
4) All

Cost/Value Analysis:
Cost per 2 servings (2 servings= 1 Workout Day)
Premium Custom Formula: $1.22/day
Power Drive Imitation: $0.58/day
Biotest, Power Drive: $1.13/day
Scivation, Neurostim: $2.14/day

I've compared the two formulas that mine most closely resembles (the choline/tyrosine combos of Power Drive and Neurostim). This is based on a two-servings-per-day intake. The first is ideally taken 45 minutes prior to working out (up to 4 hours is acceptable), altough it should be taken on an empty stomach, so you may have to schedule it 30 minutes before your pre-workout meal (which comes an hour or so before the workout). Then another taken after the workout either with your PWO drink or a few hours after the PWO meal following the workout.

The Biotest is actually a competitive value, so a really easy stack is the Power Drive plus the Natrol Memory Complex. If I could add only one thing to that, it would be Aniracetam/Piracetam/Oxiracetam.

Examples of Products These Custom Formulas Mimicks:
Biotest, Power Drive
BrainQuicken, Bodyquick
Ergopharm, Psychotropin
MRM, NeuroMax II
Neutroceutics, Gerovital
Scivation, Neurostim + C
Syntrax, Cerebro

Nootropics and Nootropic-Related Agents (for Your Own Research):
Alpha GPC (Alpha-Glycerylphosphorylcholine)
Acetyl-L-Carnitine
Adrafanil (Olmifon)
Aricept
Ashwganda
Bacoba
Caffeine
Centrophenoxine (Lucidril)
Desmopressin (DDAVP)
DMAE (Dimethylethanolamine)
Fipexide
GABA (Gamma-Aminobutyric Acid)
Galantamine
Gingko Biloba
Huperzine A
Hydergine
Idebenone
L-Dopa
L-Phenylalanine
L-Tyrosine
Lecithin (Phosphatidylcholine)
Methylphenidate (Ritalin)
Milacemide
Modafinil (Provigil)
Nicergoline
Perodozine
Phosphatidylserine
Picamilon
Pyritinol (Enerbol)
Pyroglutamate
Racetams:
- Aniracetam
- Oxiracetam
- Nefiracetam
- Piracetam
- Pramiracetam
Selegenine (Deprenyl)
Sulbutiamine (Arcalion)
Vassopressin
Vinpocetine

Or you can buy NO-Xplode by BSN and get it all at one good tasting shot...
OZ1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2009, 02:26 PM   #252 (permalink)

Blue Belt
 
DevilEyes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: At the top of the food chain - TX
Posts: 855
Quote:
Originally Posted by OZ1972 View Post
Or you can buy NO-Xplode by BSN and get it all at one good tasting shot...
I really hope this was a joke...
__________________
Beware the Dongbar


LPC 12647
DevilEyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2009, 07:06 PM   #253 (permalink)

Blue Belt
 
charlo1080's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 902
wow what is that suppose to do exactly??
__________________
"**** Jacare. Quote me on that. Next time I'm gonna beat his ass legally." Jason ''Mayhem'' Miller

-Marquardt is coming for the belt-
charlo1080 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2009, 09:39 AM   #254 (permalink)
oyaji belt
 
oyaji poi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Soap Land
Posts: 4,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlo1080 View Post
wow what is that suppose to do exactly??
what is what supposed to do?
__________________
AA: "The majority of health nuts will spend $100’s a month on useless supplements, but won’t spend a dime on actually educating themselves on the facts about the body."
oyaji poi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2009, 07:11 AM   #255 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2
Hello everyone. I've been very intrigued by nootropics ever since I read this thread and I've been doing some research.

The lecithin people recommend is soy-derived. Does it then have the negative effects that regular soy has, such as lowering testosterone levels in males? As a substitute for the soy lecithin granules I was gonna go for choline bitartrate.

According to this study Erowid DMAE Vault : Journal Articles & Abstracts, DMAE can shorten your life. Should it then be avoided?

This is what I was thinking my stack was going to look like:

B50 complex
Huperzine A
Vinpocetine
Gingko Bilboa
Piracetam
Choline Bitartrate
ALCAR
Chocamine
L-tyrosine

The reason I'm adding a B50 complex, huperzine A, vinpocetine and gingko bilboa is because the Natrol Memory Complex includes soy-derived lecithin, so I have to its ingredients it from elsewhere. I haven't calculated the price yet but I don't think it's going to be that much more expensive.

The choline bitartrate dosage to 1,5g piracetam is about 500mg, right?

What do you think?
Uhiol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2009, 05:40 AM   #256 (permalink)
Professional Fighter
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 10,627
How much are you considering taking per dose and how many doses per day?
__________________
Kilogram lifting S&P revolutionary




Myprotein.co.uk 5% discount code- MP23039
Ian Coe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2009, 08:54 AM   #257 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2
2,5 servings total per day:
0,5 servings in the morning (half the dosage listed below)
1 serving 0-45 mins pre-workout
1 serving post-workout.

Links to each of the items I was thinking of taking and dosages:

B50 complex
1 capsule/serving

Huperzine A
Size: 200 mcg
1 capsule/serving

Vinpocetine
Size: 10 mg
1 capsule/serving

Gingko Bilboa
Size: 120 mg.
1 capsule/serving

Piracetam
1 serving: 2,4 g

Choline Bitartrate
Size: 500 mg/capsule
For 2,4g piracetam: 2 capsules
For 1,2g piracetam: 1 capsule

ALCAR
1 serving: 500 mg
1 morning and 1 pre-workout.

Chocamine
Serving size: 1g
3 servings per day. 1 morning, 1 pre-w/o, 1 post-w/o.

L-tyrosine
Serving size: 2,7g
0,5 morning, 1 pre-w/o, 1 post-w/o.


Thanks for taking the time to help me out. I really appreciate it!
Uhiol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 10:28 AM   #258 (permalink)
Professional Fighter
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 10,627
I would cut out a lot of that stuff for a few weeks, build up the level of piracetam in your system and see how that works out for you.
From that point on, add a single ingrediant and see how you respond after a few weeks.

I used to use the same choline variant as you but heard it was pretty much useless.
You can alternatively use lecithin or alpha gpc (which I am still waiting to come through the post to see if it makes a difference to me).
I've only just started (4 days) back on the piracetam, after having a attack dose for 2 days of 7g a day spaced into 3 doses (all dumped into a water bottle and drunk at intervals throughout the day).
__________________
Kilogram lifting S&P revolutionary




Myprotein.co.uk 5% discount code- MP23039
Ian Coe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 10:53 AM   #259 (permalink)

Orange Belt
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 271
What do you think of this stack to increase dopamine and concentration?
L-Tyrosine,L-Phenylalanine and Ginkgo Biloba
ss4vegeta1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




Latest Threads



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:27 PM.

Sherdog.com Forum Rules Clear Cookies Social Groups Lost Password

Skin made by Alex. © iStyles.uni.cc Powered by vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2009 Sherdog.com | Privacy Policy | Click here to advertise on Sherdog