Re-Evaluating ZMA in Athletes - Page 4

TX911 · 03-05-2008, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Kabuki

Er, ZMA wasn't giving you any nightmares. That's not quite how the mind works. Your own mind was giving you those nightmares, the ZMA was just getting you into deep enough sleep for your unconscious mind to deliberate that deeply.

Remember, nightmares are nothing more than our unconscious mind worrying about the same shit as our conscious mind does, only without our ability to control the imagery. Most of them area easily enough explained by someone who knows what they're doing.

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yes, i am aware. while i didn't do a technical breakdown or delve too deeply into it, i'm sure you got my drift. i would much rather not sleep that deeply if the dreams i'm having from it causes me to wake up several times during the night in a cold sweat. I'd always wake up feeling like i got mentally hit by a truck

I'm pretty sure my brain is nothing more than a clusterfuck of continual thetawaves when i'm that deep asleep. I'll stick to my usual work-related nightmares instead of the crazy shit i was dreaming about when i was supp'ing the ZMA.

Best sleep i ever got was when i was mega dosing a cortisol blocker. Didn't ever remember my dreams, just woke up feeling refreshed.

**King Kabuki** · 03-06-2008, 12:37 AM

Typically talking with an experienced dream interpreter helps, because once your conscious mind is aware of how to translate the imagery, the unconscious mind stops being so alarmingly shocking. Know what I mean? It's kind of like creating an understanding with, yourself. "Hey alright, I'm aware of the concern now, no need to shock me with that."

Can you tell I used to have insanely twisted nightmares myself? Same story as you as well, avoided sleeping deeply for many years on account of it. Sleep fine now with no sleep aids.

joshetc · 03-06-2008, 07:18 AM

You could just take a vanilla ZMA, one without the sleep enhancers. I was going to change to one after I finish my 2 months of GNC ZMA, but instead I think I am going to stop taking it altogether. I've been sleeping great, but I really just haven't noticed any difference in performance. Instead I'll just take a ton of valerian root before bed. I may resume again in a few months if I notice a difference from stopping taking, though. I'd just prefer to get the # of pills I'm taking down, before bed pills are especially as hassle since I usually sleep in one of 4 or 5 different places at night.

**King Kabuki** · 03-06-2008, 08:50 AM

You're not supposed to notice a difference in performance from two things that help muscle recovery and improving your immune system.

joshetc · 03-06-2008, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Kabuki

You're not supposed to notice a difference in performance from two things that help muscle recovery and improving your immune system.

Better muscle recovery = better performance. I didn't say, "I don't lift more weight". My body just doesn't perform any better in general.

**MikeMartial** · 03-06-2008, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TX911

Best sleep i ever got was when i was mega dosing a cortisol blocker. Didn't ever remember my dreams, just woke up feeling refreshed.

Monger and I were just talking about that; can I ask what you were taking? Berardi has mentioned PS to block cortisol, and it's the first I've heard of it. (That is, taking it at night for that purpose)

joshetc · 03-06-2008, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeMartial

Monger and I were just talking about that; can I ask what you were taking? Berardi has mentioned PS to block cortisol, and it's the first I've heard of it. (That is, taking it at night for that purpose)

Sorry, PS is Phosphatidylserine, right? Isn't that found in soy lecithin? I've never felt tired from taking lecithin before, do you know how much PS there is per gram and how much should make you feel the effects?

Monger · 03-06-2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshetc

Sorry, PS is Phosphatidylserine, right? Isn't that found in soy lecithin? I've never felt tired from taking lecithin before, do you know how much PS there is per gram and how much should make you feel the effects?

It's not about PS making you tired. It's about PS reducing cortisol. High cortisol levels can disrupt sleep. So, it's more of an indirect thing than it is direct. Berardi didn't mention dosage amounts but it seems as though most standard PS supplements are 100mg. I'm assuming that's what he recommends... but I'm guessing on that.

TX911 · 03-06-2008, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeMartial

Monger and I were just talking about that; can I ask what you were taking? Berardi has mentioned PS to block cortisol, and it's the first I've heard of it. (That is, taking it at night for that purpose)

don't know about PS. I was taking IBE's XLean. Dosing at 8 caps a day for 2 weeks, then tapering off. Though Dr. D has said there's no cortisol rebound, i felt i should play it safe anyway. The next time i need it i'll be taking Retain instead. Heard nothing but great things

joshetc · 03-06-2008, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monger

It's not about PS making you tired. It's about PS reducing cortisol. High cortisol levels can disrupt sleep. So, it's more of an indirect thing than it is direct. Berardi didn't mention dosage amounts but it seems as though most standard PS supplements are 100mg. I'm assuming that's what he recommends... but I'm guessing on that.

Oh, cool. I'm def going to look into that then. Can you buy PS on its own at the drug store? I've never really looked at it. I'll also try taking some lecithin at night and see if I notice anything, in the meantime.