[Terumo]

Thanks for the kind words, guys.

To answer your question, Madmick, neurotransmitters are any chemical that is utilized to send nervous system signals to target tissues. This includes secretory glands and organs among other things, but in the case of sports nutrition, neurotransmitters generally get most of their work in action potentials between the CNS and muscle fibers. Common neurotransmitters or neurotransmitter precursors include phosphatidyl choline (found in lecithin), dimethylaminoethanol (DMAE), L-tyrosine, L-phenylalanine, and gamma-aminobenzoic acid (GABA). They can be rather effective in boosting CNS activity pre-workout or even aiding in CNS recovery post-workout (the latter of which is great for powerlifters and strength athletes).

Let me know if you have any other questions or comments.

[TJS]

Thanks Terumo, very informative post.

[BOSNHB]

Trying to get back in shape was always all natural except caffiene for stimulant effect any feedback?

[Madmick]

Originally Posted by Terumo

Thanks for the kind words, guys.

To answer your question, Madmick, neurotransmitters are any chemical that is utilized to send nervous system signals to target tissues. This includes secretory glands and organs among other things, but in the case of sports nutrition, neurotransmitters generally get most of their work in action potentials between the CNS and muscle fibers. Common neurotransmitters or neurotransmitter precursors include phosphatidyl choline (found in lecithin), dimethylaminoethanol (DMAE), L-tyrosine, L-phenylalanine, and gamma-aminobenzoic acid (GABA). They can be rather effective in boosting CNS activity pre-workout or even aiding in CNS recovery post-workout (the latter of which is great for powerlifters and strength athletes).

Let me know if you have any other questions or comments.

Yeah, of course I've got another question.

You've commented before on the poor absorption of amino acids taken in isolation, but there are two on that list. Are they effective?

Which is the most effective?

I already get lecithin in my green powder, but probably not much.

[Terumo]

Originally Posted by Madmick

Yeah, of course I've got another question.

You've commented before on the poor absorption of amino acids taken in isolation, but there are two on that list. Are they effective?

Which is the most effective?

I already get lecithin in my green powder, but probably not much.

Good points. Glutamine and BCAAs are most effective when used in combination with a hydrolyzed protein and glucose, PWO. As for carnitine, I mentioned its inefficiency. It needs to be consumed in monster doses for a true effect.

You may be surprised at the amount of phosphatidyl choline you are actually getting from your greens powder. I was. I use Greens+, and a single serving yields over 2g of lecithin (which likely nets about 500mg of total PC). My greens powder does, however, run very high on lecithin compared to most. It kind of seems as if I plug a lot of Biotest stuff, but they make a really great neurotransmitter formula (PowerDrive), if you are looking for one. I think it is about $17 for 30 servings if you buy direct.

[Madmick]

You mentioned "ten other" insulin optimizers besides Taurine, so if I don't mention the ones you had in mind, feel free to add them at the end. I didn't think any of them had done well in a lab.

So here's some general additions:
22) Alpha Lipoic Acid
23) Vanadyl Sulfate
24) Chromium Picolinate
25) Valerian Root/Tea

I realized this hadn't specifically been addressed:
26) Soy Protein (powder)

Related:
27) Flavonoids/Isoflavones

Saw you mention this in the casein thread, wanted a comment:
28) Psyllium (Husks)

Several here mentioned this (I thought it was purely recreational):
29) Kava Kava


You're gonna have black lung by the time we're done with you, Terumo, hahahahahaha!!!

[Madmick]

Originally Posted by Terumo

Good points. Glutamine and BCAAs are most effective when used in combination with a hydrolyzed protein and glucose, PWO. As for carnitine, I mentioned its inefficiency. It needs to be consumed in monster doses for a true effect.

You may be surprised at the amount of phosphatidyl choline you are actually getting from your greens powder. I was. I use Greens+, and a single serving yields over 2g of lecithin (which likely nets about 500mg of total PC). My greens powder does, however, run very high on lecithin compared to most. It kind of seems as if I plug a lot of Biotest stuff, but they make a really great neurotransmitter formula (PowerDrive), if you are looking for one. I think it is about $17 for 30 servings if you buy direct.

Why be guilty about plugging a company? If they do things right, they should be rewarded. Muscletech is like the Berlin Wall of the supplement world, and yet it stands.

Greens+ was actually one of the formulas I wanted the most when I first examined them after getting on this board several months ago. The reason I didn't was because Bulk Nutrition didn't offer it and I like to buy as much as possible from one source to minimize shipping, to yield the high purchase amount bonuses, and simply for convenience.

I get 2.0g per serving out of my Phyto Foods, too, but I've been reserved about continuing to buy NOW products since Chad mentioned that the woman he dated (who worked in the industry) said it wasn't highly regarded for its quality among its peers and was founded to target elderly and indigent populations in demand of their health foods.
But the few times I've seen a NOW product rated at Consumer Reports they did well.

Also, when I mentioned the two amino acids, I was referring to Tyrosine and Phenylthalanine. You listed those as transmitters, and you listed neurotransmitters as POSSIBLY USEFUL, so my confusion was whether these were two more amino acids (like free form BCAA's) that were useful in isolation, or whether they were also ineffective, and the only neurotransmitters that were useful were the ones like GABA.

But you take Biotest's neurotransmitter formula? Is it best to take these things in stacks? If you had to take a single one of those neurotransmitters listed, which would you take?

[Terumo]

Originally Posted by Madmick

Greens+ was actually one of the formulas I wanted the most when I first examined them after getting on this board several months ago. The reason I didn't was because Bulk Nutrition didn't offer it and I like to buy as much as possible from one source to minimize shipping, to yield the high purchase amount bonuses, and simply for convenience.

Try it. It has got a good formulation, and it tastes good in water. I actually look forward to taking it.

Also, when I mentioned the two amino acids, I was referring to Tyrosine and Phenylthalanine. You listed those as transmitters, and you listed neurotransmitters as POSSIBLY USEFUL, so my confusion was whether these were two more amino acids (like free form BCAA's) that were useful in isolation, or whether they were also ineffective, and the only neurotransmitters that were useful were the ones like GABA.

GABA is actually a poor neurotranmitter when administered per os. Tyrosine and phenylalanine are excellent because they are precursors to both acetylcholine and adrenergic hormones. They are actually decent amino acids to take individually. I don't know why, but I would speculate that something about the ring structure improves their oral bioavailability. It is a general trend in nutritional chemistry--things that have ring structures get much better uptake. This is one of the reasons why cyclodextrins make such a good vehicle. It was once thought that cyclodextrins allowed for sublingual absorption, and they do, but you can only but so much of a compound through the sublingual capillaries. The rest is swallowed, but it gets better uptake, apparently, because of the ring.

But you take Biotest's neurotransmitter formula? Is it best to take these things in stacks? If you had to take a single one of those neurotransmitters listed, which would you take?

Yes, and yes. Most neurotransmitters have a synergistic effect, although some (like DMAE) have an upper threshold (roughly 200mg for DMAE), above which you are actually stifling the desired effect. Per your final question, if I had to choose a single neurotransmitter, it would definitely be high-choline lecithin.

[Terumo]

Originally Posted by Madmick

You mentioned "ten other" insulin optimizers besides Taurine, so if I don't mention the ones you had in mind, feel free to add them at the end. I didn't think any of them had done well in a lab.

I actually meant that I would recommend ten other supplements that a person should incorporate before toying with something as miniscule as taurine. As far as insulin potentiators go, I would rank it pretty highly, just behind glucose and alpha lipoic acid.

So here's some general additions:
22) Alpha Lipoic Acid

Can't believe I forgot this one. It is one of my favorite supplements, but not in terms of cost effectiveness. It is great for recovering from glycogen depletion and to minimize undesirable glucose conversions in the body. Definitely a strong POSSIBLY USEFUL, if it wasn't so expensive (biologically efficacious dose is 300-600 mg/day)

23) Vanadyl Sulfate

Weak insulin mimicker. WASTE OF TIME.

24) Chromium Picolinate

Good supplement to take, but it cannot be safely taken in quantities that would alter insulin flux. It is, however, an imperative mineral for healthy glucose tolerance.

25) Valerian Root/Tea

I would speculate that administration and effectiveness of valerian on insulin sensitivity studies is probably due to its aid in the promoting of healthful sleep cycles. Not enough research.

I realized this hadn't specifically been addressed:
26) Soy Protein (powder)

POSSIBLY HARMFUL. Forget that--definitely harmful. I know this is a touchy subject, as there are many, many soy users out there, so all I'm going to say is that I've read enough in vivo studies to make most individuals' eyes bleed. Almost every time, the conclusion is the same regarding soy and hormone levels, and it is not a good thing. If I need to divulge, I will, but that is all I'm saying for now.

Related:
27) Flavonoids/Isoflavones

Way too broad of a subject. These compounds can be anything from extremely healthful (e.g. citrus bioflavonoids, quercetin) to quite harmful (e.g. daidzein, genistein)

Saw you mention this in the casein thread, wanted a comment:
28) Psyllium (Husks)

It is fiber. No more, no less. Fiber is generally a good thing. POSSIBLY USEFUL.

Several here mentioned this (I thought it was purely recreational):
29) Kava Kava

Kavalactones have demonstrated several anti-anxiety properties via mediation of the serotonin pathway. It is becoming more and more heavily regulated, and it is very difficult to effectively standardize dosing. I recommend 5-HTP instead.

Hope this answered your questions. Sorry for the delay in answering; I didn't even notice the post was there.

[supersudo]

Originally Posted by Terumo

Can't believe I forgot this one. It is one of my favorite supplements, but not in terms of cost effectiveness. It is great for recovering from glycogen depletion and to minimize undesirable glucose conversions in the body. Definitely a strong POSSIBLY USEFUL, if it wasn't so expensive (biologically efficacious dose is 300-600 mg/day)

this is the cheapest ALA i've found.. 240 caps 300mg for 23.99
http://www.vitacost.com/NSIAlphaLipo...300mg-240Caps/

and it looks like they're out of stock.. maybe i might've caused an ALA buying frenzy at vitacost posting the links here on sherdog..