[Vedic]

With the kava kava and Vitmain C we varied approaches on doseage and same with the PS. What we did was on all days, lifting or cardio we took 550mg PS PWO. On lifting days we took 3 grams of Vitamin C and 500mg of Kava Kava PWO. When we added the same thing at night as well it seemd to help substantially. However even just PWO showed promise considering PWO we were always taking BCAA, whey and oatmeal.


This is what I based some of it off of.


J Int Soc Sports Nutr. 2007 Jul 25;4:5.Click here to read Click here to read Links
Phospholipids and sports performance.
Jäger R, Purpura M, Kingsley M.

Increnovo LLC, 2138 E Lafayette Pl, Milwaukee, WI 53202, USA. ralf.jaeger@increnovo.com.

ABSTRACT: Phospholipids are essential components of all biological membranes. Phosphatidylcholine (PC) and Phosphatidylserine (PS) are Phosphatidyl-phospholipids that are required for normal cellular structure and function. The participation in physical activity often challenges a variety of physiological systems; consequently, the ability to maintain normal cellular function during activity can determine sporting performance. The participation in prolonged intense exercise has been shown to reduce circulatory choline concentrations in some individuals. As choline is a pre-cursor to the neurotransmitter Acetylcholine, this finding has encouraged researchers to investigate the hypothesis that supplementation with PC (or choline salts) could enhance sporting performance. Although the available data that evaluates the effects of PC supplementation on performance are equivocal, acute oral supplementation with PC (~0.2 g PC per kg body mass) has been demonstrated to improve performance in a variety of sporting activities where exercise has depleted circulatory choline concentrations. Short term oral supplementation with soy-derived PS (S-PS) has been reported to attenuate circulating cortisol concentrations, improve perceived well-being, and reduce perceived muscle soreness after exercise. More recently, short term oral supplementation (750 mg per day of S-PS for 10 days) has been demonstrated to improve exercise capacity during high intensity cycling and tended to increase performance during intermittent running. Although more research is warranted to determine minimum dietary Phospholipid requirements for optimal sporting performance, these findings suggest that some participants might benefit from dietary interventions that increase the intakes of PC and PS.

PMID: 17908342 [PubMed - in process]





Sports Med. 2006;36(8):657-69.Links
Effects of phosphatidylserine supplementation on exercising humans.
Kingsley M.

Department of Sports Science, University of Wales Swansea, Singleton Park, Swansea, UK. M.I.C.Kingsley@Swansea.ac.uk

Phosphatidylserine (PtdSer) is a ubiquitous phospholipid species that is normally located within the inner leaflet of the cell membrane. PtdSer has been implicated in a myriad of membrane-related functions. As a cofactor for a variety of enzymes, PtdSer is thought to be important in cell excitability and communication. PtdSer has also been shown to regulate a variety of neuroendocrine responses that include the release of acetylcholine, dopamine and noradrenaline. Additionally, PtdSer has been extensively demonstrated to influence tissue responses to inflammation. Finally, PtdSer has the potential to act as an effective antioxidant, especially in response to iron-mediated oxidation.The majority of the available research that has investigated the effects of PtdSer supplementation on humans has concentrated on memory and cognitive function; patients experiencing some degree of cognitive decline have traditionally been the main focus of investigation. Although investigators have administered PtdSer through intravenous and oral routes, oral supplementation has wider appeal. Indeed, PtdSer is commercially available as an oral supplement intended to improve cognitive function, with recommended doses usually ranging from 100 to 500 mg/day. The main sources that have been used to derive PtdSer for supplements are bovine-cortex (BC-PtdSer) and soy (S-PtdSer); however, due to the possibility of transferring infection through the consumption of prion contaminated brain, S-PtdSer is the preferred supplement for use in humans. Although the pharmacokinetics of PtdSer have not been fully elucidated, it is likely that oral supplementation leads to small but quantifiable increases in the PtdSer content within the cell membrane.A small number of peer-reviewed full articles exist that investigate the effects of PtdSer supplementation in the exercising human. Early research indicated that oral supplementation with BC-PtdSer 800 mg/day moderated exercise-induced changes to the hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal axis in untrained participants. Subsequently, this finding was extended to suggest that S-PtdSer 800 mg/day reduced the cortisol response to overtraining during weight training while improving feeling of well-being and decreasing perceived muscle soreness. However, equivocal findings from our laboratory might suggest that the dose required to undertake this neuroendocrine action may vary between participants.Interestingly, recent findings demonstrating that short-term supplementation with S-PtdSer 750 mg/day improved exercise capacity during high-intensity cycling and tended to increase performance during intermittent running might suggest an innovative application for this supplement. With the findings from the existing body of literature in mind, this article focuses on the potential effects of PtdSer supplementation in humans during and following exercise.

PMID: 16869708 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



Stress. 2004 Jun;7(2):119-26.Click here to read Links
Effects of soy lecithin phosphatidic acid and phosphatidylserine complex (PAS) on the endocrine and psychological responses to mental stress.
Hellhammer J, Fries E, Buss C, Engert V, Tuch A, Rutenberg D, Hellhammer D.

Neuropattern, Trier, Germany. juliane.hellhammer@uni-trier.de

Phosphatidylserine, derived from cow brains, has been shown previously to dampen the ACTH and cortisol response to physical stress. Further research investigated the influence of soy lecithin phosphatidylserine supplementation on mood and heart rate when faced with an acute stressor. In this study, we investigated the effects of soy lecithin phosphatidic acid and phosphatidylserine complex (PAS) supplementation on pituitary adrenal reactivity (ACTH, cortisol) and on the psychological response (Spielberger State Anxiety Inventory stress subscale) to a mental and emotional stressor. Four groups of 20 subjects were treated for three weeks with daily dosages of either 400 mg PAS, 600 mg PAS, 800 mg PAS, or placebo before exposure to the Trier Social Stress Test (TSST). Treatment with 400 mg PAS resulted in a pronounced blunting of both serum ACTH and cortisol, and salivary cortisol responses to the TSST, but did not affect heart rate. The effect was not seen with larger doses of PAS. With regard to the psychological response, 400 mg PAS seemed to exert a specific positive effect on emotional responses to the TSST. While the placebo group showed the expected increase in distress after the test, the group treated with 400 mg PAS showed decreased distress. These data provide initial evidence for a selective stress dampening effect of PAS on the pituitary-adrenal axis, suggesting the potential of PAS in the treatment of stress related disorders.

PMID: 15512856 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Vedic]

Neuroendocrinology. 1990 Sep;52(3):243-8.Links
Effects of phosphatidylserine on the neuroendocrine response to physical stress in humans.
Monteleone P, Beinat L, Tanzillo C, Maj M, Kemali D.

Institute of Medical Psychology and Psychiatry, First Medical School, University of Naples, Italy.

The activity of brain cortex-derived phosphatidylserine (BC-PS) on the neuroendocrine and neurovegetative responses to physical stress was tested in 8 healthy men who underwent three experiments with a bicycle ergometer. According to a double-blind design, before starting the exercise, each subject received intravenously, within 10 min, 50 or 75 mg of BC-PS or a volume-matched placebo diluted in 100 ml of saline. Blood samples were collected before and after the exercise for plasma epinephrine (E), norepinephrine (NE), dopamine (DA), adrenocorticotropin (ACTH), cortisol, growth hormone (GH), prolactin (PRL) and glucose determinations. Blood pressure and heart rate were also recorded. Physical stress induced a clear-cut increase in plasma E, NE, ACTH, cortisol, GH and PRL, whereas no significant change was observed in plasma DA and glucose. Pretreatment with both 50 and 75 mg BC-PS significantly blunted the ACTH and cortisol responses to physical stress.

PMID: 2170852 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE




: J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2008 Jun;48(2):217-24.Links
Effect of vitamin C supplementation on lipid peroxidation, muscle damage and inflammation after 30-min exercise at 75% v.o(2max).
Nakhostin-Roohi B, Babaei P, Rahmani-Nia F, Bohlooli S.

Department of Exercise Physiology, Guilan University, Rasht, Iran bnakhostin_aau@yahoo.com.

AIM: Hypothetically, supplementation with the antioxidant vitamins C could alleviate exercise-induced lipid peroxidation. The purpose of this study was to evaluate the effect of vitamin C supplementation on exercise-induced lipid peroxidation, muscle damage and inflammation. METHODS: Sixteen healthy untrained male volunteers participated in a 30-min exercise at 75% Vo2max. Subjects were randomly assigned to one of two groups: 1) placebo and 2) vitamin C (VC: 1 000 mg vitamin C). Blood samples were obtained prior to supplementation (baseline), 2 h after supplementation (immediately pre-exercise), post-exercise, 2 and 24 h after exercise. Plasma levels of VC, total antioxidant capacity (TAC), creatine kinase (CK), malondealdehyde (MDA), total leukocytes, neutrophils, lymphocytes, interleukin-6 (IL-6) and cortisol were measured. RESULTS: Plasma vitamin C concentrations increased significantly in the VC in response to supplementation and exercise (P<0.05). TAC decreased significantly in Placebo group 24 h after exercise compared to pre-exercise (P<0.05). Although MDA levels were similar between groups at baseline, it increased significantly 2 h after exercise only in the Placebo group (P<0.05). CK increased immediately and 2 h after exercise in both groups and 24 h after exercise only in placebo group compared to pre-exercise (P<0.05). Markers of inflammation (total leukocyte counts, neutrophil counts and IL-6) were increased significantly in response to the exercise (P<0.05). In VC group, there was significant increase in lymphocyte counts immediately after exercise compared with pre-exercise (P<0.05). Serum cortisol concentrations significantly declined after supplementation compared with baseline (P<0.05) as well as declined 2 and 24 h after exercise compared with immediately after exercise in VC group (P<0.05). CONCLUSION: VC supplementation prevented endurance exercise-induced lipid peroxidation and muscle damage but had no effect on inflammatory markers.

PMID: 18427418 [PubMed - in process]



Thats it for now

[takeahnase]

Thanks.

[IronMaidenfan#1]

This is a good thread guys. I'm sure that all of us go through things similar to this from time to time. Thanks to all who have contributed good advice.

[Monger]

Fantastic information, Vedic.

Anyone have an idea how much lecithin you’d have to consume to get the kind of dosages in the studies above (~500mg)? Taking straight up PS would be expensive as hell.

[MikeMartial]

Originally Posted by Monger

Anyone have an idea how much lecithin you’d have to consume to get the kind of dosages in the studies above (~500mg)? Taking straight up PS would be expensive as hell.

Straight off the container of lecithin I have:

Contains 2.3g of PC and 1.4g of Phosphatidyllinositol per 10g serving (2 Tbsp).

---Doesn't mention PS anywhere. I'm sure it's there, but at what concentration, I don't know.

I chuck 2 spoonfuls in a tall mug of coffee with my creatine preWO. It ain't pretty, but I've had much, much worse.

[Ian Coe]

Originally Posted by MikeMartial

Straight off the container of lecithin I have:

Contains 2.3g of PC and 1.4g of Phosphatidyllinositol per 10g serving (2 Tbsp).

---Doesn't mention PS anywhere. I'm sure it's there, but at what concentration, I don't know.

I chuck 2 spoonfuls in a tall mug of coffee with my creatine preWO. It ain't pretty, but I've had much, much worse.

I'm thinking if I should venture into the word of lecithin. But I have so many half tried things kicking about.....I'm not sure if I should begin experimenting with even more things


*sigh*

We all know I will when I get the cash


A curse on you and and your house mike

[Vedic]

At least 10 grams of lecithin. PS is expensive, but you guys did ask for specifics on cortisol This product is getting stellar reviews and its 800mg per dose. its a lot of money, but really I only take protein, fish, oil, and basics, so adding this isn't really all that much. Anyways, hope it helps.

Primordial Performance - Dermacrine, hormone precursors and estrogen reducers

[Monger]

Originally Posted by Vedic

At least 10 grams of lecithin. PS is expensive, but you guys did ask for specifics on cortisol This product is getting stellar reviews and its 800mg per dose. its a lot of money, but really I only take protein, fish, oil, and basics, so adding this isn't really all that much. Anyways, hope it helps.

Primordial Performance - Dermacrine, hormone precursors and estrogen reducers

That's not a bad looking product at all. It's still pretty pricey but I was looking at some of the 100mg pills on the market and it'd be over $100 a month to get 500mg of PS a day. Do you know if it matters if it's all taken at one sitting or split up during the day?

Think of EndoAmp as the protector of your manhood -- It protects your muscles, and it protects your balls

[Vedic]

We did it PWO and before bed. Some studies took it before workout. There are a plethra of ways to take it, but we always did PWO and before bed. Although pre wo may even work quite well. Super Phosphatidylserine by ProSource Performance has their own brand and thats what we used. 550mg per capsule, and it wasn't priced to bad.

33 bucks for a months worth. Yes, you guys love me