[Madmick]

Okay, so here is an attempt at a complete PWO powder that will rival the big names in quality and effectiveness but keep the cost down. Since this formula is purely an exercise in theory, I can't make any promises on the taste. Hydrolyzed proteins tend to be exceptionally bitter, and the customization sites advise you not to include them in formulas above 25% of the total weight; nevertheless, our very own Fat Wilhelm ordered this formula in the Premium Orange Cream flavor and reports that he finds it a pleasure to take down. I've also received PM's from 2 other members indicating the taste was just fine.
Update: On a tip from Wilhelm, I'm removing "Hydrolyzed Casein" as an option for the protein. He actually emailed True Protein and they told him (for some reason neglecting to post this on their site) that the hydrolyzed casein is roughly 10x as bitter as the hydrolyzed whey.

It's for this reason (exceptional bitterness) that hydrolysates aren't very popular, and consequently aren't very common among PWO or regular protein powders. Nevertheless, we're seeing more manufacturers add hydrolysates as their sort of top-shelf protein for the hardcore athletes. Biotest's Surge is probably the most well known formulation of glucose and a glucose polymer with whey hydrolysates, but less hardcore companies like Champion Nutrition with its ProScore 100 are capturing a wakening market of young guys who- once understanding the superiority of hydrolysates for PWO- are beginning to make the sacrifice on taste. Dymatize and ProLab have joined this race, too. I even saw Protein Lab added a Sonic (which almost perfectly mirrors "Surge" in composition and price. Protein Factory even claim Sonic contains the first "bitter-free" hydrolysate; they have a patent on it). This push in the market shouldn't be too surprising; longtime king of protein powders- ON 100% Whey- includes a small amount of hydrolyzed whey.

Simply go to www.trueprotein.com and click on the tab that says "Customized Products". I did this to simplify the process because I'd like to see some guys on here try this. Realize this: if you think the original formula's taste sucks balls, and find it unbearable: as long as you've got the immediate cash, you can fix it right away by ordering more regular protein and dextrose to dilute the amount of hydrolysates. Or just throw in whatever you have in the pantry right now.

Update: I've changed the ratio of dextrose:maltodextrin from 3:1 to 1:1, so they are now in equal parts. This will perfectly mirror the Surge formula, and the taste doesn't appear to be a concern (so the extra dextrose for sweetening isn't necessary).

My True Protein Custom Biotest Surge Mimicker:
30%: Hydrolyzed Whey Protein, High Grade
30%: Dextrose (aka d-glucose; a short-chain insulin-spiking carbohydrate)
30%: Maltodextrin (the glucose polymer; a medium-chain insulin-spiking carbohydrate)
5%: Creatine Monohydrate
5%: Branched Chain Amino Acids
Price: $5.83 per lb
1 lb yields ~4 servings (Serving= ~105-112g)
I strongly urge getting a premium flavor at an additional rate of $1.10/lb - $1.60/lb
Recommended Sweeteners: [1] Stevia (recommended for health reasons, not taste), [2] Splenda

Accessories:
Scoopers: $0.50, 25g (x4.5 for 1 serving) or 35g (x3 for 1 serving)
Jugs: $2 for 2 lb jug; $3 for 5 lb jug
Flavor Packs: $3.75 (will flavor 10-15 pounds)

Compare to the following similar premier formulas (that don't include creatine or taurine):
My Custom Formula: $5.83/lb
True Protein Fast Recovery: $6.84/lb
Biotest Surge: $10.50/lb
Protein Factory Sonic: $11.00/lb
Champion ProScore 100: $13.50/lb
****bolic Adaptation Reload: $15.15/lb

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

*A primer (not a scientific treatise) on why hydrolysate proteins are the supreme type of protein for PWO formulas:
Part 1: http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/pr...processing.htm
Part 2: http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/pr...ocessing-2.htm

[Madmick]

An alternative method to formulate this with pre-boxed products (through www.1fast400.com):

My Custom Formula: Pre-Packaged Mix and Match
Dymatize, ISO-100*, 2 lbs, $24 (5 lbs, $41)
NOW, Dextrose, 2 x 2 lbs, $4 (5 x 2 lbs, $10)
ProLab, Creatine Monohydrate, 1000g, $22
Option #1: $5.15/lb (2 lb jug of ISO-100, 4 lbs Dextrose, added 125g of creatine)
Option #2: $3.84/lb (5 lb jug of ISO-100 & 10 lbs Dextrose, added 300g of creatine)

The Dymatize comes with a 28g (1 ounce) scooper. Four scoops equals one serving.

Directions for Adding Creatine:
Weigh out 20g (4 teaspoons) of the ProLab creatine per pound of mixture. The rest you have until you purchase more protein to mix it with. If we account for the amount of creatine used, then the above are the costs per pound of this pre-boxed version (depending on what quantity you buy it will be more or less costly).

Notes on Brand Formula vs. True Protein Formula:
This is almost exactly the same as the True Protein formula, although it lacks the very small amounts of added BCAA's, glutamine, and taurine. However, the Dymatize includes both an acetylcholine precursor and an added amount of l-phenylalanine (both nootropics perhaps useful in CNS recovery) that the True Protein formula lacks.

Remember the dextrose isn't flavored. One of those flavor packs from the True Protein might come in handy. Don't add gatorade or kool-aid packs: they include sugars themselves and will throw off the profile. Any calorie-free flavor pack will do.

*Alternatives:
AlltheWhey, Hydrolyzed Whey Isolate (2 lbs, $20)
ASN Sports, HP 100
Designer Whey, Whey Protein Powder [not 100% hydrolysates] (2 lbs, $16)
AST, VP2 (2 lbs. $27)

[Madmick]

Okay, according to True Protein's website, they have a new version of their website that should be up within a month, and once they establish it they will include the optional customization of many supplements they now only offer individually in bulk. Some of those supplements I wish to add to my formula, but I'd like it to be flexible for any of you who try it, so I'm going to show you how to adapt the formula.

Base:
34% Hydrolyzed Whey or Hydrolyzed Casein
33% Dextrose
33% Maltodextrin

Here is your base. Currently the total is 100%, but as you add other things in, it won't be possible to keep these numbers for your base ingredients. You need only understand these two things:
1) Maintain a 2:1 ratio of the carbs (dextrose/maltodextrin) to the hydrolyzed protein
2) Maintain a 1:1 ratio of dextrose:maltodextrin.

Optional Additions (in order of most to least recommended):
5%: Creatine Monohydrate (or 2% Creatine Ethyl Ester Hydrochloride)
1%: Alpha Lipoic Acid
2%: BCAA's
1%: Absorbic Acid (Vitamin C Powder)
2%: DL-Phenylalanine or L-Tyrosine
1%: Green Tea Extract*
1-5%: L-Glutamine or Glutamine Peptides*
1-3%: Taurine

*Most useful when a lean gain or retention of muscle during weight loss are your goals.

Explanation of the "Optional Additions" Percentages:
I based these percentiles on a 100g serving (1 workout= 1 serving). Thus, when you add 5% creatine to your formula, you're adding 5g per 100g serving. Below I show you how to manipulate the formula depending on how many supplements you add in;

How to Adapt This Custom Formula Blueprint to Your Unique Trainining Needs & Preferences:
Quick Example: Let's say you add in 10% of the supplements from the "Optional Additions" section. You need to maintain your two ratios of the macronutrients.
100% Formula - 10% Supplements = 90% Carbs and Protein.
So now the base macronutrients compose 90% of the formula.
1) Always break this into 3 parts; in this case, that will be 30% parts. Carbs get two, protein gets one. So the dextrose and maltodextrin combine for 60%, and the hydrolyzed protein is 30% (2:1 ratio).
2) Now, the 60% is split between the two carbohydrate sources. Always break this number into 2 equal parts; in this case, 30% each. Thus, the dextrose gets 30% and the maltodextrin gets 30% (1:1 ratio).
3) So your new total is 30% hydrolyzed protein, 30% dextrose, 30% maltodextrin, 10% supplements. See how easy that is?

[Madmick]

Finally, and for my fourth post in a row, if the hydrolysate is too bitter to be masked at all, you can replace it with any whey protein isolate or whey protein concentrate (i.e. ON 100% Whey, etc.). This is an undesirable substitution and you shouldn't expect equal results, but then, you get nothing from what you can't get down.

If you go with an isolate, just make sure it's primarily ultrafiltration or cross-flow microfiltration.

So you know, if you're willing to spend the extra dime, an isolate is preferred to a concentrate.

[Madmick]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot my 5th post. If you guys can't gain on this, you're fucking pussies.

[PatrikX]

I wish, i was in the states sometimes..... just sometimes

[Bman]

so now for the sake of 90% of us can you take everythig you just said and sum it up in a 5 sentence paragraph?

[Madmick]

Originally Posted by Bman

so now for the sake of 90% of us can you take everythig you just said and sum it up in a 5 sentence paragraph?

LOL, well, that's impossible, really, but I'll try.

The ultimate PWO drink for size is a combination of two parts glucose (sugar) and one part hydrolyzed (pre-partially digested) protein.

The stuff I wrote above is a blueprint to making your own formula that almost perfectly matches products like Biotest's Surge, Champion Nutrition's ProScore 100, and Protein Factory's Sonic...for literally 1/2-1/3 the price.

• Post #1: Instructions for Making Custom Formula on True Protein
• Post #2: Instructions for Making Custom Formula from Pre-Packaged Products
• Post #3: Instructions for Tailoring Upgraded Custom Formula for Yourself at True Protein's new website that will be launched in a couple weeks (supposedly, it will let you customize more supplements- like alpha lipoic acid- into the formula).
• Post #4: Just to point out that if you can't handle the flavor of hydrolyzed protein, you can still use this formula, but substistute your favorite WPC or WPI.
• Post #5: Taunting the "Hardgainers"

[stewy37]

Outdone yourself this time. Looks like you've put a lot of thought and time in to this. Good job.

[Bux]

wow i just used up all the energy i had for making the stuff on reading how

im sure if u cbf its worthwhile though