Fairly Advanced ZMA Question

romistrub · 08-06-2008, 09:48 PM

As a lot of you probably know, ZMA is a combination of Zinc, Magnesium, and vit B6. The timing of ZMA is difficult, since most (all?) pre-sleep anti-catabolic drinks/meals contain calcium, which blocks the absorption of zinc.

Biochemists: Is there any (ingestible) compound that would inhibit the absorption of calcium?

Sherdoggers: Would you be more willing / happier to take ZMA in combination *with* an arbitrary pre-sleep shake than staggered?

I'm thinking of making a project out of this.

Also, does anybody have a copy of:
Mechanisms of the interference of calcium chloride on zinc in graphite furnace atomic absorption spectrometry using a dual-cavity platform
and/or
ScienceDirect - Bioresource Technology : Calcium interference with continuous biosorption of zinc by Sargassum sp. (Phaeophyceae) in tubular laboratory reactors

**MikeMartial** · 08-06-2008, 11:49 PM

Take your ZMA 45 minutes before bed, and your casein right before bed. Timing doesn't seem all that difficult to me. But you probably know this.

But to answer your question, yes, in a perfect world, one would optimally want to take both at the same time., just for the sake of convenience.

What type of "project" are you planning on turning this into?

romistrub · 08-07-2008, 07:54 AM

I'm in second year nanotech engineering, and I'm bored. We have a lot of opportunities to talk with researchers (many wiith nano-bio and nano-pharma backgrounds) about potential mini-projects that they will supervise and fund. Additionally, we have a dedicated project in fourth year that takes up two semesters.

Honestly, I just want to spend some time and brainpower on this problem. Hell, it could be useful (to both the consumer and supp companies).

And you're right, timing isn't all that difficult, but if it can be made simpler, it's always worth trying.

Donut62 · 08-07-2008, 07:59 AM

Honestly, most of the hype behind ZMA came from Victor Conte using it as a front to sell steroids and growth hormone to athletes. While it's not useless to take, I don't know if it's really worth all that trouble to find a more convenient way to take something that isn't really some super-powerful supplement to begin with. If it wasn't dirt cheap I don't think many people would bother with it.

ozzie · 08-07-2008, 08:17 AM

I think Mike summed it up pretty well here, Donut:

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeMartial

It would be like taking a mutli occasionally; the reason for taking it every night is consistency in replacement of optimal levels of zinc and magnesium. it's not a matter of "loading" like creatine or BA, but a matter of having optimal levels, and replacing what's lost via training (more related to zn than mg, although Poliquin would argue both are depleted by training)

The enhanced sleep is a positive side effect, like I've said before---not the main effect. It's definitely not something a person could get hooked on, unless there was some bizarre psychological addiction.

Inhibitory neurotransmitter for the CNS. Helps with relaxation, and stacked with ZMA, enhances sleep further.

I know it's hyped on increasing growth hormone, but it makes no difference to the real benefits.

Donut62 · 08-07-2008, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozzie

I think Mike summed it up pretty well here, Donut:

I know it's hyped on increasing growth hormone, but it makes no difference to the real benefits.

I understand that. I'm saying that I don't see how it's something so important to time perfectly that you would undertake nano-tech research just so you can take it with a protein shake instead of a few minutes before. It's a damn mineral supplement.

romistrub · 08-07-2008, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donut62

I understand that. I'm saying that I don't see how it's something so important to time perfectly that you would undertake nano-tech research just so you can take it with a protein shake instead of a few minutes before. It's a damn mineral supplement.

Hehe, don't worry too much about the amount of research that would go into this. I didn't mean to overstate the significance it would be given. Also, I should note that nanotech would be a last-resort in this situation. It is a problem that could probably be solved with some biochem. Probably.

It would be more for research experience purposes than anything else.

joshetc · 08-07-2008, 10:48 AM

So what is your goal? To find something that blocks the absorption of calcium so calcium absorption can't block magnesium absorption? I was under the impression that the reason calcium is a problem with ZMA is their mechanisms of absorption are similar. Anything that would block calcium absorption should, then, block magnesium absorption as well.

romistrub · 08-07-2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshetc

So what is your goal? To find something that blocks the absorption of calcium so calcium absorption can't block magnesium absorption? I was under the impression that the reason calcium is a problem with ZMA is their mechanisms of absorption are similar. Anything that would block calcium absorption should, then, block magnesium absorption as well.

Well, their mechanisms of absorption might be similar, but that doesn't mean that their reactivities with all substances will be similar. And this is the trick: finding a substance that will react with calcium (safely), not react with zinc, and have the resulting calcium compound be unabsorbable by the body. Now, ideally there would be some sort of compound whose concentration is dependent on the concentration of zinc, so that, when the zinc is gone, the equilibrium of the calcium + substance reaction would shift the other way.

But, I mean, this whole thing depends on the absorption mechanisms of zinc and calcium, which was why I was hoping that someone had access to the articles.

**Sonny** · 08-07-2008, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donut62

I understand that. I'm saying that I don't see how it's something so important to time perfectly that you would undertake nano-tech research just so you can take it with a protein shake instead of a few minutes before. It's a damn mineral supplement.

I think what a lot of people fail to realize, and I'm not talking about anyone in this thread, is that the body's "favouritism" towards calcium isn't to the extent that it will create deficiencies in other minerals in the body.