[Mathias]

Originally Posted by Cory_Pilfold

I'm not sure but..Fruits and vegetables are pretty low in calories mostly.

Calorie Counter - Fruit

Do you really think that they consume as much calories as meat eaters?

Calories in Steak

Foods highest in Calories in Pork Products

Calories in Chicken, Breast, Meat Only

Calories in Chicken, Drumstick

Calories in a Shrimp - Shrimp Calories

Heres some information on calories in meat for comparison.

Fat and Protein fill someone up more and make them satisfied - in the long run, they eat less because of it. Whereas a diet of just fruits and vegetables will raise someones blood sugar and increase insulin production making them unsatisfied and want to splurge any chance they get. I'm all too familiar with high carb diets as I used to follow one and was nothing short of miserable.

[noise666]

I love my high carbohydrate diet. Of course the majority of my carbs are complex, and I hardly eat any overly-processed foods.

That being said, on my high carbohydrate diet, I continue to lose weight and build muscle. High carb, low carb - it doesn't fuckin' matter. Do it right, watch what you eat, and workout, you should be good. Calories in/Calories out.

We all know that in here, but it seems as though the anti-vegan people will always remain and continue to preach. I love how people refer to veganism as a religion/propaganda based movement. So funny. I'm vegan, and I hate religion.

[MikeMartial]

Jesus guys, not this again.

That study is initially a "WTF" kind of response, but once you read the fine print, it's straighforward. They state right in the study that large amounts of vegetable oil were used alongside the veggies. But that seems to mess up people on both sides of the equation. The press hasn't touched it, and people don't know what to make of it.

[Mathias]

Originally Posted by noise666

I love my high carbohydrate diet. Of course the majority of my carbs are complex, and I hardly eat any overly-processed foods.

That being said, on my high carbohydrate diet, I continue to lose weight and build muscle. High carb, low carb - it doesn't fuckin' matter. Do it right, watch what you eat, and workout, you should be good. Calories in/Calories out.

We all know that in here, but it seems as though the anti-vegan people will always remain and continue to preach. I love how people refer to veganism as a religion/propaganda based movement. So funny. I'm vegan, and I hate religion.

The 'religous' aspect is the animals rights people who follow their by life obsessively of avoiding animal products. And yes, there is plenty of propaganda from organizations like PETA.

My guess is that you take some supplements Noise? You mentioned that you do eat complex carbs. Cory on the other hand has said that people who eat only fruits and vegetables are the healthiest people with the strongest immune systems and they get plenty of protein just from just them.

[DevilEyes]

Originally Posted by MikeMartial

Jesus guys, not this again.

[noise666]

Originally Posted by Mathias

The 'religous' aspect is the animals rights people who follow their by life obsessively of avoiding animal products. And yes, there is plenty of propaganda from organizations like PETA.

My guess is that you take some supplements Noise? You mentioned that you do eat complex carbs. Cory on the other hand has said that people who eat only fruits and vegetables are the healthiest people with the strongest immune systems and they get plenty of protein just from just them.

Mathias,

Actually - I do not take many supps. I take a multi and some omega 3's. I've actually been slacking on taking them lately as I don't have the funds to stock back up on them. Your'e 100% right about Peta, I actually dislike what they do quite a bit. That being said, of course I believe in most of what they believe in. Before you ask me about my blood work up, I've stated a number of times some of my numbers from my physicals and blood work on this forum. So have a look around if you want. I do know I'm not vitamin B-12 deficient and I've been vegan for eleven years. So if it were to happen, it'd have happened by now, since your body stores of B-12 start to diminish after 3 years or so.

I do know my immune system is much stronger than what it was but I also don't just eat fruits and veggies. I eat those, along with whole grains, legumes, nuts, etc.

Oh - and about the article talking about loads of vegetable oils alongside, well of course that's silly. I take in very little added oils. I may use a few teaspoons of olive oil a week. My diet over all, is very low fat, but a good amount of protein and of course many carbohydrates. Like most people, I do enjoy the occasional dessert, so refined sugars to creep their way in, but nothing too major.

[MikeMartial]

Noise is our resident, knowledgeable, and I might emphasize, level-headed vegan. I pay him to stay and put up with the carnivorous aggression.

[Mathias]

Originally Posted by noise666

Mathias,

Actually - I do not take many supps. I take a multi and some omega 3's. I've actually been slacking on taking them lately as I don't have the funds to stock back up on them. Your'e 100% right about Peta, I actually dislike what they do quite a bit. That being said, of course I believe in most of what they believe in. Before you ask me about my blood work up, I've stated a number of times some of my numbers from my physicals and blood work on this forum. So have a look around if you want. I do know I'm not vitamin B-12 deficient and I've been vegan for eleven years. So if it were to happen, it'd have happened by now, since your body stores of B-12 start to diminish after 3 years or so.

I do know my immune system is much stronger than what it was but I also don't just eat fruits and veggies. I eat those, along with whole grains, legumes, nuts, etc.

Oh - and about the article talking about loads of vegetable oils alongside, well of course that's silly. I take in very little added oils. I may use a few teaspoons of olive oil a week. My diet over all, is very low fat, but a good amount of protein and of course many carbohydrates. Like most people, I do enjoy the occasional dessert, so refined sugars to creep their way in, but nothing too major.

Where would you say most of your protein intake comes from? Do you use any powders like Soy or just the amounts from nuts? I would've guessed you ate grains, legumes, and nuts, etc. I can't imagine someone training on just fruits and vegetables.

[vegan]

ohh yeah. preach time!
about b-12 the biggest danger isn't a vegan diet. it is that your body has problem obtaining it. I know a couple of people who have to low amount of vitamin b-12 and none of them is vegan. not saying that you shouldn't be cautious if you are a vegan. but hand's down the vitamin b-12 subjekt is bs if you compare it to how enriched other foods are with vitamins. alot of people would get vitamin deficit if milk and other stuff didn't have synthetic vitamins put into it.

btw some reading about people who read about the china study.
ESPN Page 2 - Keri: Athletes who choose a vegetarian diet

also isn't soy classified as a vegetable acording to you mathias?

[Cory_Pilfold]

Originally Posted by Mathias

So why are you calling people here hypocrites when you preach a vegan diet and don't even follow one? Why do you eat meat? Because according to you, that will clog your arteries and kill you.




Health reasons? I've known only one true vegan who ate only fruits, vegetables, and nuts(no vitamins) and he was hospitalized after 9 weeks because of a B12 deficiency. Do you know where this vitamin is abundant? Meat. Could this be a hint that we're suppose to eat it? His doctor also said he was sodium deficient which is of no surprise considering the lack of sodium in vegetation. I wonder why we even have hydrochloric acid in our stomachs if we're not suppose to eat meat. It's just there to look good right? Because we all know that herbivores don't have it. There is one problem with the Lipid Hypothesis and that is that it's never been proven. It's still a hypothesis after god knows how many years. And it's basically as stupid as saying that we shouldn't eat any salt because we already have it in our bodies.

I agree, We do need vitamin b12.. that is the only thing that comes from meet that we require in our diet, but taking them in supplements will remove that. I'm sure he would have been a healthy person, In fact I've seen the same thing..where people, namely vegans have gone to the hospital for vitamin b12 deficiency. It's the only thing that comes from meat thats required in our blood stream.

Either take supplements for it, or eat an extremely small amount of meat. Problem solved, what you are naming is like 1/20th of a chance.

Originally Posted by Mathias

Fat and Protein fill someone up more and make them satisfied - in the long run, they eat less because of it. Whereas a diet of just fruits and vegetables will raise someones blood sugar and increase insulin production making them unsatisfied and want to splurge any chance they get. I'm all too familiar with high carb diets as I used to follow one and was nothing short of miserable.

Well what you are talking about is one side of the spectrum, because Almost every true Vegan I know has never encountered this problem..This is actually the first I've heard of it. Not saying it isn't possible, because it certainly is..but it must be very rare.

To be honest with you, you could say even worse about meat eaters..In america 60% of them are obese.

Originally Posted by noise666

Mathias,

Actually - I do not take many supps. I take a multi and some omega 3's. I've actually been slacking on taking them lately as I don't have the funds to stock back up on them. Your'e 100% right about Peta, I actually dislike what they do quite a bit. That being said, of course I believe in most of what they believe in. Before you ask me about my blood work up, I've stated a number of times some of my numbers from my physicals and blood work on this forum. So have a look around if you want. I do know I'm not vitamin B-12 deficient and I've been vegan for eleven years. So if it were to happen, it'd have happened by now, since your body stores of B-12 start to diminish after 3 years or so.

I do know my immune system is much stronger than what it was but I also don't just eat fruits and veggies. I eat those, along with whole grains, legumes, nuts, etc.

Oh - and about the article talking about loads of vegetable oils alongside, well of course that's silly. I take in very little added oils. I may use a few teaspoons of olive oil a week. My diet over all, is very low fat, but a good amount of protein and of course many carbohydrates. Like most people, I do enjoy the occasional dessert, so refined sugars to creep their way in, but nothing too major.

It is probably because you ate meat in the past. Your body stores vitamin b12 for a number of years after you stop eating meat. Thanks by the way dude, you are proving my point that strict organic non gmo vegans who get a balanced diet of fruits / vegetables / legumes / nuts/ and grains..have far stronger immune systems than those of meat based diets.

This article is slightly biased because it talks about vegetable oil being the main culprit when in actuality, Most true vegans don't even intake that much oil / fat at all.

As i said before..One side of the spectrum.

Originally Posted by noise666

I love my high carbohydrate diet. Of course the majority of my carbs are complex, and I hardly eat any overly-processed foods.

That being said, on my high carbohydrate diet, I continue to lose weight and build muscle. High carb, low carb - it doesn't fuckin' matter. Do it right, watch what you eat, and workout, you should be good. Calories in/Calories out.

We all know that in here, but it seems as though the anti-vegan people will always remain and continue to preach. I love how people refer to veganism as a religion/propaganda based movement. So funny. I'm vegan, and I hate religion.

I think exactly the same way hahaha..and I will continue to think that way once i become vegan. Your diet has got to be one of the healthiest diets modern day in existence. Do you grow your own food? or are you strict with organic non gmo produce? I've heard a lot about GMO produce lacking in nutrients in comparison. As well as obviously being sprayed with many chemicals and pesticides.