Do you care about Your health / Natural health products / Supplements ?

[GunsforGuevara]

First of all, I am Canadian. I work over in South Korea. Second of all, your debating abilities are quite suspect. Your references have been shown to be from biased sources and your idea of a dialogue consists of hyperbole and and misappropriating facts to suit your doomsday 'conspiracies'.

Go to LEGISINFO - The Library of Parliament's research tool for finding information on legislation to read the legislative summary on bill C-51.


Here's the purpose of the bill:

A. Health Protection Legislative Renewal

The purpose of the Canada Health Protection Act(4) would have been “to protect the health of the people of Canada.”(5) It would have included principles relating to both assessing and addressing risks to health: principles “based on science, weighing risk against potential advantages, the concept of precaution, allowing for informed choice by consumers, considering health determinants, and sustainable development.”(6) The Act would have created a product tampering offence as well as a deception offence, which would prohibit “deceiv[ing] consumers regarding the health and safety benefits of a product.”(7) It also would have “describe[d] the respective responsibilities of the various participants in the supply chain, including the responsibility of the manufacturer to monitor adverse health effects after a product has been sold and to take corrective action when necessary.”(8)

Here's the part about 'health products'

C. The “Food and Consumer Safety Action Plan”

For health products, progressive licensing would be established, which would “shift the focus from pre-market review to one that continuously assesses a product’s risks and benefits both before and after it reaches the market.”(17) A progressive licensing framework would involve new obligations on the part of manufacturers, which could include active post-market surveillance and reporting, and issuing risk information to the public.(18)

Here's the protocol stated for natural health product manufacturers:
What exactly is wrong with this part?

The bill requires persons (defined to include individuals or organizations as defined in section 2 of the Criminal Code) to:

* obtain a clinical trial authorization before conducting clinical trials on therapeutic products that do not have a market authorization (new section 10), and to conduct clinical trials in accordance with the regulations (new section 11). (The procedures relating to obtaining, amending, suspending or revoking clinical trial authorizations are set out in new sections 18.2 to 18.6, and regulations relating to clinical trials can be made under new paragraphs 30(1)(w) to 30(1)(z.1).);
* obtain a market authorization before advertising, selling or importing for sale a therapeutic product (new subsection 12(1)). (The procedures relating to obtaining, amending, suspending and revoking market authorizations are set out in new sections 18.7 to 19.1.); and
* obtain an establishment licence before carrying out a controlled activity (i.e., before manufacturing, collecting, processing, preserving, labelling, packaging, importing for sale, distributing, wholesaling or testing a therapeutic product) (new section 13). (The procedures relating to obtaining, amending, suspending and rev

This part discusses the enforcement of the rules:

E. Powers of the Minister (Clause 8, New Sections 19.8–20.3)

Many of the powers listed in this section reflect a progressive licensing approach. For example, subject to the regulations, the Minister can compel the holder of a clinical trial authorization, market authorization or establishment licence to provide any information within their control that is considered necessary for the administration of the bill (new section 19.8). The Minister can also, subject to the regulations, require the holder of a market authorization or establishment licence in order to “compile information, conduct tests or studies or monitor experience” to obtain additional information about a therapeutic product’s effects on health or safety (new paragraph 19.9(a)), or report such information to the Minister (new paragraph 19.9(b)).

Subject to the regulations, the Minister can also require labels of therapeutics to be revised to reflect information necessary to prevent injury to health (new section 20.1), require the holder of a market authorization to conduct a reassessment of a therapeutic product within a specific timeframe (new section 20.2), and publicly disclose information about the risks or benefits associated with a therapeutic product (new section 20.3).

G. Administration and Enforcement (Clauses 9–10)

The powers of inspectors under the existing Food and Drugs Act are amended in part to reflect changes in technology, e.g., examining documents contained within computers (new paragraph 23(2)(f)) and using copying equipment (new paragraph 23(2)(g)). The amendments also authorize an inspector to enter or pass through or over private property without being liable for doing so in carrying out their functions (new subsection 23(4)). New subsection 23.8(1) provides that if an inspector believes on reasonable grounds that there is a contravention of the Act or the regulations, he or she can direct a person to take a measure that is necessary to identify or respond to a risk of injury to health related to the contravening activity.

Notice if you actually read any of this, that the first part sets rules for manufacturers. The second part may seem harsh to you. But what I see is good police enforcement against the businesses that peddle such bullshit. As long as companies follow the standards (i.e; obtain licenses, conduct legitimate clinical trials, or be truthful about their product) set forth, there should be no problem.

Why should health companies not be subject to the same standards just like other products?

[GunsforGuevara]

Cory_Pilfold, this will be last response in this thread. It's obvious that you are too narrow–minded to look at any real facts. I read yours and found holes in them (suspect logic, incorrect comprehension of the bill, alarmist responses, biased websites). You on the other hand rant and rant like that bum on the street corner, who I'm sure one day will really be kidnapped by aliens.

Hell, I teach thirteen year olds (ESL) with better reasoning and critical thinking than you. The more you rant, you the more exposed you become and the dumber I am for arguing with you. You're a fool and I pity those who have to listen to you in real life.

[Chad Hamilton]

We should all agree to disagree.
I think there is plenty of truth to everyones arguments.

Although you should all know that my arguments are right on.

[Ian Coe]

[Cory_Pilfold]

Originally Posted by GunsforGuevara

First of all, I am Canadian. I work over in South Korea. Second of all, your debating abilities are quite suspect. Your references have been shown to be from biased sources and your idea of a dialogue consists of hyperbole and and misappropriating facts to suit your doomsday 'conspiracies'.

Go to LEGISINFO - The Library of Parliament's research tool for finding information on legislation to read the legislative summary on bill C-51.


Here's the purpose of the bill:



Here's the part about 'health products'


Here's the protocol stated for natural health product manufacturers:
What exactly is wrong with this part?



This part discusses the enforcement of the rules:





Notice if you actually read any of this, that the first part sets rules for manufacturers. The second part may seem harsh to you. But what I see is good police enforcement against the businesses that peddle such bullshit. As long as companies follow the standards (i.e; obtain licenses, conduct legitimate clinical trials, or be truthful about their product) set forth, there should be no problem.

Why should health companies not be subject to the same standards just like other products?

I don't understand? I have biased sources when they are coming from the bill themself? and stopc51.com site? You should really take the time to read and understand the entire bill, instead of picking out little parts which support your argument.


BTW you're talking about the natural health companies that peddle such bullshit???? clearly you have never gone or used a natural health product on your entire life..because If you did..you would realize how effective they are, and no it has nothing to do with somebody selling you horns and claiming they cure cancer. Take the time to find out more about it, and the truth will come soon enough..until then you are just making biased points that are completely taking away your argument..

I don't understand how you can claim my arguments are biased from bill c-51, almost all the information I posted CAME from the bill it self..or the stopc51.com site. Are they biased and lying too?? are they all tin foil hats claiming dooms day as well?? for wanting to keep their rights and freedom to a healthy clean lifestyle intact ?

I'll agree to disagree if you do, because you really need to start looking at the situation for what it really is...This bill has everything to do with regulating and criminalizing natural health products in the wake up big pharma, which is what you really need to realize. There is far going on than meets the eye, and if you actually took the time to read majority of the stuff on stopc51.com site or read the bill..you would realize that there is some things that are deathly wrong with this bill.. This bill has nothing to do with regulating the products, and has everything to do with big pharma taking control of an industry..notice how New drugs will now be able to get passed through the FDA much easier, regardless of how dangerous they are?



Bill C-51 Will:
Allow Government agents to:
-Enter private property without a warrant Section 23 (4)
-Confiscate your property at their discretion, at your cost Section 23.3 a
-Dispose of your property at their discretion, at your cost Section 23.3 c
-Seize your bank accounts without a warrant Section 23 (2) (d)
-Charge you for shipping and storage of your property Section 23.3a-b
-Store your property Indefinitely without paying you for damages Section 23 (2) (d)
-Levy fines of up to $5,000,000.00 / 2 years in jail per offence. Section 31.1

Introduce new legislation that will:
-Allow laws to be created in Canada, behind closed doors, with the assistance of foreign governments, industrial and trade organizations Section 30.7
-Allow "Crack house style" of enforcement on natural health providers Section 23.1
-Allow enforcement to be considered on more than 70% of Canadians who use NHP's Health Canada Reference
-Allow the minister, based on opinion, to shut down research without any scientific reason or evidence of risk or harm Section 18.5
-Allow the minister, based on opinion, to allow or disallow market authorizations for Natural Health Products Section 18.7 (1)

Can Health Canada be Trusted With the Police State Powers Sought For In Bill C-51?

Cartoon related to bill c-51-Causing Deaths Through Enforcement Actions
-Filing of Falsified Court Documents
-Attempting to Bankrupt Businesses
-Falsified Charges
-Enforcing Regulations Against Constitutional Rights



Is this information biased as well? It's from the bill.. I don't know if you realize how much freedom and constitutional rights this is taking away from everyday citizens like me or you, Beyond the "dooms day theories" and the "tin foil hat remarks" you should at least see that..Of course there is more disturbing things about this bill then that, this is one of the main things to get people on board with fighting against it.


To this day i truly can't believe how there are even people that are for this bill, because they are either uneducated..or just plain stupid ( no offense)

I don't think you're like that..but you're confused about what is really going on. Go with your feelings and intuition..they don't lie, however..I cant say the same about "unelected officials"

[Cory_Pilfold]

Originally Posted by GunsforGuevara

Cory_Pilfold, this will be last response in this thread. It's obvious that you are too narrow–minded to look at any real facts. I read yours and found holes in them (suspect logic, incorrect comprehension of the bill, alarmist responses, biased websites). You on the other hand rant and rant like that bum on the street corner, who I'm sure one day will really be kidnapped by aliens.

Hell, I teach thirteen year olds (ESL) with better reasoning and critical thinking than you. The more you rant, you the more exposed you become and the dumber I am for arguing with you. You're a fool and I pity those who have to listen to you in real life.

The fact that you truly believe all the information you're reading is completely true just shows how narrow minded YOU are. Apparently everybody that disagrees with this bill is narrow minded and has no critical thinking ability. The fact is, most of the information I posted about the risks for This bill to our health..was FROM the bill itself!!Is that also Narrow minded? the fact is that they would have near complete control over our natural health products / plant derived substances..and AT BEST we would have to go through them to get it, and if you read any of HANS ( Health action network society) magazines you would realize that natural health products are nearly going extinct already because of laws imposed. This bill would do more than regulate them, It would control them..and give Canada's health minister power to refuse natural health products be produced with no real evidence there is anything wrong with them.


Again I fail to understand How I'm narrow minded and free from critical thinking when In reality All of my previous information about bill c-51 came from the bill itself..and the STOPC51.COM website. I think you need to wake up, and look past what the government is telling you about this bill. Health Canada has a history of corruption, and the more you actually researched about that..the more you would understand about where I'm coming from.

[Cory_Pilfold]

Eliminates the Ability of our Elected Officials to Protect Us
Section 30(7) of Bill C-51

1. Bypassing our elected official’s ability to vote out laws that are not the will of, or in the interest of the Canadian people.
2. Allows government agents, (not elected officials) to create binding laws behind closed doors. ( This means WITHOUT US)
3. New powers will allow enforcement of these laws by the searching and seizing of private property and bank accounts without warrants.

Fast Tracks New Drugs to Market; Reduced Safety Measures

1. By shortening the approval process for new drugs.
2. By placing the responsibility of safety on drug companies with a proven track record of downplaying the health risks and side effects.

Increased numbers of adverse drug reactions will lead to an increase in malpractice and personal law suits against doctors who prescribe new drugs which have not been tested properly for health and safety risks.

University of Arizona, concluded that overall, the cost of U.S. drug related morbidity and mortality exceed $177.4 billion in the year 2000 with over 200,000 deaths created annually.
( This is the company you want to allow to control us?)
Ernst F.R., Grizzle A.J., Drug Related Morbidity and Mortality: Updating the Cost-of-Illness Model, J Am Pharm Assoc. 2001;41:192-9

Makes Upwards of 70% of Natural Health Products illegal

1. At the current rate of licensing failure, more than 70% of natural health products will be illegal.
2. Broad definitions will allow government agents to invoke enforcement on people who do as little as share a “therapeutic product”with a friend. Garlic and many other foods are therapeutic products.

Not “one” person has ever died in Canada because of a Natural Health Product.

Bill C-51 is not about Canadian Safety

Bill C-51 is about Big Pharma



Bill C-51 will allow binding laws to be created in secret

In Canada the law making process takes place in a public forum with our elected officials voting for or against them. They are held accountable to the public for their decisions. If Bill C-51 passes, it will allow laws to be created behind closed doors, by government agents who may not have our best interests in mind.


AGAIN, WITH NOT ONE REPORTED DEATH FROM A NATURAL HEALTH PRODUCT..THIS IS WHAT WE WANT TO REGULATE? WHEN IN REALITY COMPANIES LIKE BIG PHARMA ARE GETTING AWAY WITH 200,000 DEATHS A YEAR AND ARE NOT GETTING REGULATED?

I seriously CANNOT understand how people can actually
agree with this bill..It just boggles my mind at how ignorant people can be, as chad said..it's about speaking on deaf ears.


Call To Action - Your Freedom And Health Is At Risk!

This is from stopc51.com site..and these are facts FROM the actual bill themself..


Sorry but Denial will only get you so far when you actually look at the facts beyond what you truly want to believe. It seems to me that you will look at any piece of information that gets you to believe that it isn't really happening..It's sad really, But it seems to be taking place in north america quite frequently. It's okay I don't mind, at least I know there is people out there like chad trying to make a difference as well..My advice is that we all need to actually do something to stop it, instead of arguing about whether It's really happening or not. It's like waiting until somebody dies To take a drug off the market.

[Aoshi1]

Wow, you guys are harsh, lol.

[MikeMartial]

[ronin0352]

Originally Posted by MikeMartial

Damn, I saw you were the last poster in this thread and hoped like hell it was closed.

The sky is falling, the sky is falling!