Cutting from middleweight to welterweight - A couple of questions.

KillahMurillah · 11-07-2009, 10:19 AM

Hey there. I usually walk around at 180-185 lbs, but lately, my coach said that it might be a good idea for me to drop 10 pounds to welterweight (my amateur division uses virtually the same weight class system as the UFC). I would have a couple of months to cut weight healthily.

I am 5'9 and am 185 (fighting weight), which is from what I understand, a slightly off ratio, since I am pretty short compared to most middleweights. Can someone verify this?

My record is 6-0 in my local organization. My coach and trainer said that if I dropped to welterweight, I would have an even greater chance of rising up the ranks and possibly doing even better in that class. Because most of the fighters there are not as strong, and a lot less experienced. They are also about the same height and reach as me, if not a bit shorter.

I am a pretty strong and agile fighter, but I would probably have to work more on my quickness and explosiveness instead of the nice, consistent pace I find in my middleweight bouts.

I'm looking for some honest opinions on what you all think about that decision?
It would help a lot.

**Sinister** · 11-07-2009, 10:26 AM

5'9" is pretty short for 185. In Boxing that's almost unheard of. I'm a little taller than you and Fight at 140. Think about that for a second.

Also, you have to understand that now a lot of MMA Fighters are getting to the point where they're learning how to cut, so you're seeing a translation of the same thing from Boxing, which is that the guys in the lower weights are suddenly taller (because they cut down 20+ lbs), and the guys above weights like 170 are starting to be monsterously tall or big for those weights. Being short is starting to be a liability, where before it wasn't so much because a lot of guys fought close to their walking around weight. Now that weight cutting is being learned AND guys are becoming more well-rounded skill-wise, it's not even that much of an advantage if you can wrestle and utilize the lower center of gravity. Guys are being hit and hurt before they have the chance, by someone a lot bigger than they are.

It's a smart move if you ask me.

onepointeighty · 11-07-2009, 10:46 AM

sinister is right in all senses of his post. it seems it depends on your ability to get to that weight and keep your stamina and your confidence. If you are 6 and 0 i dont see why you cant stay where you are if you feel healthy there.

if you said you were 0 and 6 id say deff cut down but whats the point if your doing so well?

RedNeckJiuJitsu · 11-07-2009, 10:48 AM

I believe this is the thread you're looking for - The Weight Cutting Thread

If you do day before weigh-ins, I would just do that as about a 10 lb water cut, re-hydrating immediately after stepping on the scales.

**Sinister** · 11-07-2009, 11:31 AM

There's absolutely no need to have to drop that much water weight in that little time. That's for people who don't know what they're doing up until a weigh-in.

RedNeckJiuJitsu · 11-07-2009, 12:05 PM

No offense, Sinister, but 10lbs of water is less (percentage-wise) to someone at 185 than to someone at 140. And not everybody at 5'9" has the body to get down to 140. I'd look quite cadaverous that low. I typically walk around about 200, although I've been as high as 230 (a few months ago). The lowest I've been in years was 186 for a couple minutes to weigh-in a year and a half ago.

I should add, though, that I meant on doing a water cut if he's already got diet and conditioning under control and still walks ~180-185, and that he should do an overall trial cut to see how his body handles it.

**Sinister** · 11-07-2009, 12:15 PM

My point was that losing 10lbs (even of water) doesn't have to be done that quickly before a Fight. If everything is done correctly up until that point, it's unnecessary, regardless of Fighting weight.

I never insinuated what particular weight he should Fight at, only what may be optimal. In the end it doesn't matter. But there's not a reason to have to do a quick water drain of that much in that little time, unless something's wrong before-hand. That's an arcane way of making weight.

RedNeckJiuJitsu · 11-07-2009, 12:32 PM

I guess I was applying myself to his situation a little more than I should have. My thought was that he may not have the BF to lose body mass to hit 170 without losing strength and negating some of the purpose of the cut.

The thread that I linked doesn't espouse water cutting, aside from drinking far less and decreasing sodium intake to almost nil a couple days before weigh-ins.

**Sinister** · 11-07-2009, 01:28 PM

It's completely possible to get to most Fighting weights barring the absurd (like a guy who is near 6' and you're asking for below 120)...without needing to dehydrate to near Death. The problem is just that many trainers and even nutritionists don't understand the peril the body goes through during rapid fat loss, including muscle depletion, and how to address those conditions properly to allow for maximum body fat AND water loss without the dramatic losses of strength and stamina.

And to make matters worse, most Fighters attempt to do this completely blindly, and resort to those arcane methods of cutting weight. Put it like this, if any of my clients and/or guys in my Camp at the Gym I saw jogging in a fuckin' sauna with a sauna suit on, I'd get rid of them because they're headed for disaster sooner or later.

DPS831 · 11-07-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinister

It's completely possible to get to most Fighting weights barring the absurd (like a guy who is near 6' and you're asking for below 120)...without needing to dehydrate to near Death. The problem is just that many trainers and even nutritionists don't understand the peril the body goes through during rapid fat loss, including muscle depletion, and how to address those conditions properly to allow for maximum body fat AND water loss without the dramatic losses of strength and stamina.

And to make matters worse, most Fighters attempt to do this completely blindly, and resort to those arcane methods of cutting weight. Put it like this, if any of my clients and/or guys in my Camp at the Gym I saw jogging in a fuckin' sauna with a sauna suit on, I'd get rid of them because they're headed for disaster sooner or later.

One of the advantages (among the myriad of disadvantages) of cutting a ton of water weight a day or so before the weigh in is that you are able to put the weight back on immediately. For example MMA fighter Anthony Johnson in the 170lb class is known for cutting 40 lbs, which I would guess a good 10-20 is done in the sauna at the last minute. Now he goes through hell to make weight, and he even missed last time, but provided he is able to recover adequately for fight night, the guy enjoys a good 10-15lb advantage over his opponent which is a big advantage.

I guess my question is this: using healthier methods of cutting weight, are fighters able to put on the weight that they cut in time to have a weight advantage on fight night? Sorry for ramblin on a bit, it's just something I've been wondering for a while now.