[Benji Snap]

Originally Posted by solkanar

OK,


/rant.


Judging by the amount of PMs I have been getting, there seems to be a very high amount of interest in this lifestyle. If you have any questions, just PM me and I'll be happy to answer them. I'm off to the other sections of the forum for a while.

Can you answer the questions here? So when when u answer a pm just paste it here like a Q&A because a lot of people would be interested.. thx

[Lubaolong]

Originally Posted by solkanar

False. Their teeth, jaw structure, and digestive system are specifically designed for eating meat. Dogs are physiologically identical to wolves who are also pure carnivores. Feeding a dog all plants will result in major deficiencies resulting in numerous degenerative diseases as seen in modern domesticated dogs. Even diabetes can be found in dogs that are fed a grain/plant based diet...which is very ironic because diabetes(types I and II) does not exist in any animal in the wild.

You are incorrect. I would suggest you to talk to a veterinarian. It's one thing if you want to jack up your own body, but you should be more responsible when dealing with other living things that depend on your care.

Originally Posted by solkanar

There are virtually no sources of any vitamins to be in vegetation

....

Originally Posted by solkanar

For example no source of A other than animal liver exists.

Did you find that tidbit off of some How to Eat Like a Inuit website?

The major source of vitamin A for most people is their small intestines. Carotene (found in many vegetables) is converted there to retinal (vitamin A) and is stored in the liver. So yes, a liver would be a source of carotene/vitamin A. lol.

Originally Posted by solkanar

The amount of B complex in 30 gm of fresh red meat is more than can be extracted from one hundred kilos of yeast concentrate.

Did you find that fact from the same website? I don't even know how to respond to that. I don't eat yeast to get B vitamins.

Also, regarding these A and B vitamins, where do you get yours from? I know liver has some vitamin A and B's, but you said your diet consisted of 3-5 lbs of steak and 1-2 dozen eggs.

Originally Posted by solkanar

Vitamin C is not the only antiscorbitic substance, since a diet of just red meat prevents scurvy.

Then why did anyone ever get scurvy? Are you eating raw whale skin, liver, and berries? Because that's where Inuits get their vitamin C. Well, since they often go deficient in the winter when they can't eat berries, most get their vitamin C from orange juice now. If you're only eating steak and eggs like you said, then you aren't getting what you need.

Originally Posted by solkanar

fiber scratches the delicate lining and causes mucus and scarring

Is this another one of your claims not based on any medical research but from your own personal experiences?

Originally Posted by solkanar

Meat leaves the stomach as a liquid after about 45-60 min

Is this more Inuit propaganda?

Food can sit in your stomach anywhere from 40 minutes to several hours. Yes, meat leaves the stomach after that as a "liquid" that most people call chyme. Why meat? Well, because protein foods are broken down in the stomach by gastric juices (aqueous HCl and pepsin and rennin enzymes). Starches and sugars don't get digested in the stomach. Aside from saliva, they don't get broken down until they reach the small intestines, and some types of starches get broken down in the colon. See, I've actually studied physiology at a university. I don't get propaganda from guys' websites or my own imagination.

Originally Posted by ozzie

Lubaolong: why do you think cats are carnivores but not dogs?

Because I'm fairly well-read, have raised dogs my entire life, and my grandfather was a veterinarian. Dogs are omnivores.

Do a search for something like "all meat diet dogs" or something and maybe you can find some information about dog diets.

Here, this is the first website that popped up:

http://www.bulldoginformation.com/bu...-raw-diet.html

Here's the next one from a vet that also mentions cats, carnivore/omnivore, dogs, and all-meat:

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/printDS/162495

Originally Posted by ozzie

Pet food is junk in my opinion, you can't tell me that's what they eat naturally in the wild.

No, but dogs definitely don't eat ground beef. They eat meat, organs of herbivores, stomaches (which contain vegetable matter), bones, etc.

Pre-formulated, high quality pet food is still the best bet for domesticated dogs and cats.

[mobeck]

Originally Posted by solkanar

There are virtually no sources of any vitamins to be in vegetation (which is why all vitamin supplements are synthetic), but all are found in abundance in meat.

For example no source of A other than animal liver exists.

All modern vegetables have been extensively modified by selective breeding to reduce to eliminate toxins and still require long cooking, are low in nutrients and cause a growth of harmful bacteria in the intestine, while the fibrous cellulose residues (fiber) scratches the delicate lining and causes mucus and scarring.

Solk, would you mind providing scientific sources for these claims? I'm especially interested in your repeated statements that vegetables and fiber negatively affect the intestines.

[ozzie]

Originally Posted by Lubaolong

Because I'm fairly well-read, have raised dogs my entire life, and my grandfather was a veterinarian. Dogs are omnivores.

Then why does my dogs teeth and bite disagree with you?

[ozzie]

I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll make this my last post on the matter. Lubaolong I typed dogs carnivore omnivore in google and here's the opening sentences for the first 3 sites;

1. Myth: DOGS ARE OMNIVORES.

2. The dog is a true carnivore, and should be fed accordingly.

3. The Dog is a canine carnivorous mammal that has been domesticated for at least 14,000 years and perhaps for as long as 150,000 years based on recent evidence.

I did come across statements on the 3rd site which says dogs can digest vegetables and grains, but that does not make them omnivores.

[Lubaolong]

Originally Posted by ozzie

Lubaolong I typed dogs carnivore omnivore in google and here's the opening sentences for the first 3 sites

I doubt you've written a thesis/dissertation in graduate school, and maybe not even a research paper in college, so I can't blame you. But there’s a mountain of information out there, not even remotely all of which is trustworthy. When you research, you have to evaluate the source.

Typing that first phrase you listed brought up the website (and others containing the same information) where you found it. Let's see, there's a personal geocities homepage, many holistic (aka unproven, potentially dangerous, pseudoscientific) medicine sites, and a few that sell related products.

The first thing you should think is to check the references of their claims. Are they reliable? The answer here is no. They provide no references.

Secondly, is the content fact, opinion, or propaganda? If fact, you should have no trouble finding references. Again, none.

Third, is it accurate? Is the research they're citing 150 years old? Can similar information be found by cross-checking? How credible is the writer? Are there vague or exaggerated conclusions drawn from insufficient evidence? Again, it doesn't stack up. The writer you'll find is a holistic layperson making extravagant claims in the face of opposing evidence by real veterinarians, national vet associations and research groups.

Fourth, goal of the website? Who's the intended audience? Is it for scientific research? To provide information? Or is to advertise a product/service? I think I've already mentioned that.

This all is getting a little out of control. I'm not going to sit here and waste hours arguing about it. If you still want to believe an all-steak diet and feeding your dog an all-ground beef one is the way to go, then I won't say anything more.

[threelions]

Im hoping Lubalong and Solk both stick around and contribute to this thread as although you both come from opposite ends of the spectrum you both are making very interesting and informative posts even if some of its going over my head.

Anyway as a kind of hijack as i dont think this question is worth its own thread. Talking about fibre and digestion would juicing vegetables help take out fibre but keep the vitamins, minerals etc? As i have Colitis and fibre can really cause me problems hence my interest in some of Solks information. Not that i could ever manage his diet but the digestion parts interest me for obvious reasons.

[ozzie]

You're the one claiming dogs are omnivores so I thought the onus was on you to show some sources. Anyway I think you have me mistaken for solkanar, I never said I feed my dog an all beef diet. He gets beef, chicken, pork, lamb, bones and the occassional bowl of milk.
Here, I found a credible source for you;




I'm not being a smartass here, but how are your dogs teeth? I imagine the canned mush diet doesn't do much for his teeth nor his satisfaction.
Shit look what you made me done, I said I wasn't going to post on this subject anymore!

[Tamil]

Relating back to this topic, I found this article on two studies: Ketogenic Diets and Physical Performance.

It's an interesting read. The studies were attempts to imitate Inuit diets (fat/protein/carb ratio) and the effect . The first study was from the University of Vermont, with untrained subjects, I believe. The second one is from MIT, using competitive cyclists. It would've been nice if they could've used a variety of competitive athletes, but oh well...

There's a noted slight dip in anerobic performance (due to low glycogen levels), but once again I wonder how a lifter or a fighter would've done. Otherwise performance is normal, after the first week or two of adjustment. The diet ratio was 83/15/<3, fat/protein/carb.

Off-topic, I really like this Nutrition and ****bolism site. For all the articles, it lists references at the bottom and links to other articles that cite it on the right-hand side. Very nice.

[Centaur]

Thanks for the link Tamil. Gonna read that right now.