[muerteverde]

Originally Posted by Mihail

Who are they?

I don't know who they are eaither, but I can tell you I have seen a lot of big muscular guys doing triatholons, guys way bigger and more muscular than you would see doing marathons. Maybe it is something about the extreme nature that attracts that type of person that wants to develope in more than one area of competition (as opposed to a profesional marathoner who pretty much just runs).

But you also cannot judge which excersize is better for burning fat by what the top level athletes int he world look like. First they are preselceted for their sports (tall guys play basteball, skinny guys wih marathons, huge guys excell at sumo) and second, their training is bnoth at a higher level and probably involves factors we aren't aware of that is individual to them (their diet, their cross training, how many dozens of hours per week they spedn training).

[Mihail]

Originally Posted by muerteverde

I don't know who they are eaither, but I can tell you I have seen a lot of big muscular guys doing triatholons, guys way bigger and more muscular than you would see doing marathons.

Show me one big muscular triathlete.

[wenispinkle]

Originally Posted by BoxingFanNoMore

Supporting your body weight has nothing to with, in fact that is one of the disadvantages of running becuase its harder on your joints. Standing still requires you to support your body weight, but yet you do not create any mechanical energy or do any work.

um, yeah...when you have to support your body weight you burn more calories than if something is doing it for you..

[Mav3rick]

Originally Posted by BoxingFanNoMore

#1 Humans may not be as efficient as cheetahs, but world class runners usually run at a Froude number(Ratio of Inertia forces/gravitational forces) at 3.2.

#2 Are you serious, lets see there is rolling resistance, mechanical friction, and most important drag.

Not to mention that you are propelling not only your mass but the bikes mass as well.

#1 How many people here are world class runners. I would venture to say that original poster as well as everyone else here is not.

#2 I cycle stationary, depends on your mode of exercise.

#3 I don't even know what the hell we are debating about anymore. My original impression was that you were claiming that cycling and running are of equal intensities and stating that bodyweight was not a factor even though the bike supports you in biking and you support your own mass in running. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying. Maybe we are looking at the situation from two different angles *shrug*

[BoxingFanNoMore]

I am stating that supporting your bodyweight while running is neligable to the total energy expended while running.

But you and wenispinkle seem to think otherwise, so I suggest you do some research into Bodyweight Supported Treadmill Training.

Because here are some results of BSTT studies.

Here a test was given at around 6.5 mph, and here are the emg results



For one muscle group the muscle activity actually increased for less bodyweight although slightly, one group reamined farily constant over the 75% decrease in bodyweight, one group had a 25% change, and one group 50% change.

So decreasing the bodyweight supported by 75% lead only to a change of 50%, in one muscle group. If done at a higher speed where interia forcers are greater the reductions would have been smaller. Also, the speed was kept constant but in reality if you decrease the amount of bodyweight supported you would actually be able to acheive greater speeds and burn even more calories. Hence, the use of "overspeed" training.

From another study on energy expended during BSTT

"We found that no significant lowering of energy requirement was elicited until
30% support was achieved; HR, RPE, and BP were not reflective of this reduction in
energy requirements."

that was done walking at 2 mph. Where gravitational forces are greater and yet no change in energy requirements until a 30% decrease in bodyweight supported, and heart rate, and blood pressure didnt even change.


If supporting your bodyweight lead to a significant increase in muscle expenditure, then why are sleds used instead of weight vests? And why isnt standing around such a great exercise?

Do you see my point, supporting your body weight has little to do with it? Either in running, swimming, cycling, cross country skiing, rowing, sprinting, or wheel chair racing for that matter, compared to the inertial effects.

[BoxingFanNoMore]

EDIT Post above.

I really shouldnt have said neligable, but minor compared to.

As where in cycling Air Drag is not minor.

[teep]

NO longer BOxing Fan---you are one of the few guys on here that ACTUALLY knows research--so manyh of these other guys just re-hash what they have heard someone else say or whatever is in vogue to say.

Basck to the original question about swimming for fat loss: SWIMMING DOES NOT MAKE YOU LOSE FAT. It is a BIOLOGICAL adaptation for mammals to retain a layer of fat--why? Okay, those of you who don't want to do the research: 1> Because of buoyency factor 2> because of thermal demands as the fat allow retention of core temperature. Swimming is very taxing on the Gas Exchange system in the Lungs and is excellent for this.

Those of you who want to argue this point or Boxing Fan NO MOre's points--take a few courses in exercise physiology and quit reading what others say on the internet.

Ignorance--there is a cure--if you really want it.

[Mav3rick]

Ok since you are so good at citing research, cite me a study that shows running is equal in energy expenditure to stationary cycling at the same speed. If you can do this, I'll admit I am wrong plain and simple.

[johnnynoname]

Originally Posted by TJ Combo

Do you do the sprints without warming up at all? Just going to the track and start the sprints?

You definately should warm up. I suggest warming up with 2 laps. The first lap I would walk and the second I would jog. After that start with your sprint workout.

As a side note you may want to strech your leg muscles after you warm up just to prevent injuries.

[johnnynoname]

Originally Posted by TJ Combo

Do you do the sprints without warming up at all? Just going to the track and start the sprints?

You definately should warm up. I suggest warming up with 2 laps. The first lap I would walk and the second I would jog. After that start with your sprint workout.

As a side note you may want to strech your leg muscles after you warm up just to prevent injuries.