[Fight_Song]

How do you plan a program for progression of cv ability? For strength, you just lift more, and/or more times than before.

Should a similar model be used to judge cv progression?


Timing sprints and using that as a basis of evaluation? Or just adding distance/volume?

Is running X (sprint/distance) for "best time" similar to "maxing out" in that it can lead to over-training/burnout?


Just looking for ideas. My plan has always been 3 things:

- use variety (bike, sprint, thai pads, sparring, gpp) to limit over-use injury and specialization
- bust my ass (*what* you put in the time training is more important than the *time* you put in training) quality>quantity
- adjust intensity/volume as needed (drop an intensive cardio session to an active reco session if needed to rehab injury or avoid over-training)

But "busting your ass" is hard to quantify and thus program.

[Ian Coe]

I know what you mean. I can get pretty fit just hitting pads in the space of 3-4 weeks, but then when I get to that point I get bored (usually fight then get lazy).
The problem is it's hard to quantify fitness increase based on pads other then what you will or what the perceived power/work rate is. Whereas obviously running or cycling you can.


My other particular problem is I start off 'ok' but the longer I get into training the more obsessed I become. Once I get a few decent runs (for this example) in I always think right, I could add say a fast session and then next week I'll add in a distance session, then next week I think I want to add another fast session, but I don't want to loose the distance so I end up tacing on that and think next time, I managed to do those I'll add another and so the cycle continues until i add so much and don't want to take a step back that usually within another 4-5 weeks I'll come down with something, think I'm being weak and carry on and then be out of training for a month or two then the whole process starts over again.


edit- and then thoughout all of this I become like a druggie and nothing gets in the way of my training. I do tend to snap at people and get aggressive.
I'm not a real fan of that person to be honest

[paolo27th]

I have the same problem and am thinking of a solution. So far I came up with few ideas:

1-Test yourself.
I can think of a number of ways. A good start would be to invest in a heart rate monitor first. Then go to a track and run 3 intervals of 5 min with 1 min between (same as your fight). Record overall distance, distance covered in each interval, max hr, average hr and especially the hr you get down to at the end of the 1 min break.

2-Have a training log where you record all your workouts. Based on that you can plan your next training week in advance. Just make sure you do stick to that program (this is the hard bit).

3-Start from some medium intensity work and plan weekly increments so that after 3-4 weeks you are working close to your limit - this is why you should follow your plan.

4- After the 4 week period take a slow week and then test again.

5- When you start the next cycle just make sure you take a couple of steps back. You don't want to start from your previous cycle's peak or you won't be able to increase the intensity.

Ok this may not work forever but I guess you could use it for 2 or 3 months leading up to a fight.

[mschatz]

You could set certain conditioning goals,and then test them every now and again. Say you want to be able to run a 5:30 mile, complete 100 burpees in 5 minutes, and whatever else. You dont have to just train for those events, but keep doing the variety and test these different activites once a month or so. If they get better, thats progression...

[bluethree]

Do a simple test like the cooper test every month or so. You can indirectly measure your vo2 max and get a general idea of how in shape you are in terms of cardio

Cooper Test = go to a track, sprint/jog/walk as many times as possible within 12 minutes. Just don't stop moving.

[IronMaidenfan#1]

I agree with Mschatz. You need to set new types of goals, the question is how many and at what point do you make things too difficult. Is is feasible to expect to improve dramatically on things like burpee times if you are also training a different type of fitness like distance running. The questions are endless. I personally thinmk it's good to set challenging goals but not to set too many, especially if the challenges are varied in their nature.

I could do with improving on this aswell.

[Bry]

I have a little group that does cardio together 3 times a week. When we started out, each work out was different and it would take 3 to 4 weeks sometimes before we hit the same workout.

After reading an article by Urban "Unilateral, DE work, infinite intensity, complex training, endurance,heavy lifting..." I realized we needed a better way of seeing progress.

So I picked a timed routine, and now we do that every week. This gives us a bench mark for how our conditioning is going.

Once everyone has reached an acceptable level, then we will move to a harder bench mark routine.

Cheers

Bry

[EZA]

Cardiovascular development should follow a progression just like any other aspect of training. There are several parts of the equation that need to be developed in sequence, there is not just a simple concept of "cardiovascular development" that can be universally improved using one single principle or one single method. Progoramming requires understanding all the pieces and how they fit together as well as how they're developed.

Here is one of the most important things to consider when programming for cardiovascular training that is rarely discussed or understood:

Conditioning work should progress from general to specific. You can break conditioning into a continuum ranging from general, i.e. GPP type work and non-specific activities, down to specific, the most specific would be sparring or doing the exact activity you are training for of course. During general phases of conditioning you are using drills, exercises, and methods to target different aspects of the entire energy system chain, in other words you are breaking down training into aerobic power/capacity, lactic power/capacity, and alactic power/capacity, and even different aspects of each of those systems.

Think of this idea as being the same as working on different parts of the MMA game like spending time developing your ground game, stand-up, takedowns, etc. General conditioning simply works on different pieces of the conditioning puzzle to develop each aspect independently yet in a logical progression from one piece to the next. The exact sequencing is a whole other subject altogether but is also very important.

The specific phase is where you use specific aspects of the skill you are conditioning for as your training. In MMA the most specific obviously would be live sparring. You can make it more focused on conditioning by doing things like rotating fresh partners every minute or every round and tactics like that which force you to work harder than you normally would. Less specific than sparring but still part of the specific phase would be doing things like bag and pad work, takedowns, getting off your back, etc. The main principle of specific conditioning training is that it utilizes certain skills or all the skills of the sport you're training for and that it uses the same energy systems of course.

The purpose of the specific phase is to take all systems you've improved through your general conditioning and make them work as effectively as possible together to produce the energy for your specific sport. This is the same as taking all the separate skills of MMA, i.e. stand up, grappling, submissions, etc. and putting them all together in the sport of MMA.

Generally speaking, the specific conditioning phase should be the final 4-6 weeks of training prior to a fight and should follow an energy system specific progression from long to short, i.e. from aerobic to alactic. The final 2 weeks of training your conditioning should be entirely specific to adequately prepare you for specific energy system demands of the fight and should use rounds/rest intervals and pacing that is as close to what you'll have to do in the fight as possible.

Using the principle of general to specific conditioning programming is a VERY important part of physical preparation and many training programs use it to some extent, but most do not do it properly and leave out many of the pieces. When done properly, however, it is one of the real keys to being able to maintain a pace that mentally breaks down your opponent.

[Brad Morris]

Well said Eza, and 100% backed up by all the reading I have been doing of late by authors like Verkhoshansky and Siff.

[h7jb7sg1e]

There are a ton of ways to train you heart & lungs. I find the easiest way is to use the CV machines (treadmill, bike, etc) at the gym. However, practically speaking, outdoor running and lap swimming may benefit you more in real life. Personally I'm sticking to stairs and burpees and when I reach my goals for these then I'll add swimming and running sessions.