[Satyricus]

I train boxing and muay thai, and I've encountered an unexpected problem. I can't box for more than 3 or 4 rounds even if nothing is wrong with my endurance.

I can run 2 miles in 12 minutes and do 50-60 pushups. I also run 5 miles twice a week. Somehow my muscles still get very tired when I sparr or box the heavy bag.

Any ideas what this could be about?

[krellik]

...Runners run, swimmers swim, fighters fight.

Spend more time on what you are bad at...

[CowboyPete]

Sounds like it may not be a cardio issue but a muscular endurance issue.

[Ian Coe]

how tense are you when sparing or hitting the bag (and a different slant to the question, how long have you been training)?

[Cody Richard]

Just spar and spar hard on a more consistent basis and you will notice a difference.(at least 3-5 days a week) You will have to work through the fatigue at first, but once you become more accustomed to sparring you will be able to relax more and last longer after a while.

[tical13]

Sparring and running/pushups have very few things in common.. If what you were saying is that you train MT and are switching to pure boxing and expect to do more than 4-5 rounds, then I could see your point. Yet still switching minute details end up engaging different muscles thatn may have never received serious work before, which would then require time to build them up to the same level.. But thinking that you would be able to spar 6+ rounds just because you can do 50 push and run a couple miles is crazy talk..

IMO you are doing more than excellent right now as it is.. Its even a little hard for me to beleive... I would expect you to be dieing doing 1-3 rounds while getting started.. How many mintues are your rounds? 3 minutes? How hard are the sessions? How long have you been training boxing / MT for?

[Satyricus]

I have been training muay thai for 2 years now, and started doing boxing 4-5 months ago. I realize that I am relatively new but I thought that I could at least do a few rounds to start with since I have always been in good fit.

To tical13: yes my rounds are 3 minutes, I can't tell how hard the sessions are since I have nothing to compare them to. I get gassed and sweatty and train my muscles to fatigue every time I train.

[krellik]

Vilo just to clarify, im in no way against running for fighting and I agree with most of your opinions regarding the subject (although I must admit that I think Tabata is an excelent option among many other options...)

My statement was stolen from an old Pedro Rizzo quote and my point was more or less this: Since he is surprised that his "good" running cardio hasnt quite transfered over to sparing, hiting pads, bagwork etc, I think it is an good idea to put the focus on that exact activity that he is experiencing problems with.... Aint meaning nuthing mo, aint meaning nuthing less...

And since you are actice in this thread I do have an question for you. About these ill feelings against "High intensity intervall training" and tabata intervalls... Is it the hype around them (where many lil 13 year olds are saying "wut newb stup that long distance running you only need tabittha!!!1, that kind of thing..) that has gotten you pissed of or is there any other reasons that you dont like it. From sneaking around in KKs "going pro log" I noticed that you were having him doing quite a bit of hillsprints and although im not certain exactly how long the hills were in my mind it is one form of "high intensity intervalls" that certainly is both hard and rewarding... And tabata in my mind is an usefull tool, as for boxing punch outs drills are used by many boxers for conditioning, I have used tabata intervalls with sprawls a a similar tool with some subwrestlers that well was whery hard and filled its purpose whery well to get better at that specific activity and remain good at it while your extremely fatigued, pretty similar how punchout drills work where you should remain explosive in bursts and recoperate "on your feet" inbetween the short rests.. So basicly I can not understand how you can not apreciate a "tool" like tabata intervalls...

Sorry if im rambling here, im not trying to prove anything, im genuinely interested in your reasoning since I know you know -hella lot- and the question has been in the back of my head from some time.

[krellik]

Hmm that was without a doubt a monster of a post. Lots and lots of info to digest, and quite frankly I will need some thinking and digestion of it..;)

....All I can say even if im not buying everything you say, one thing for sure is that im going to be doing lots more of medium distance running and it is because of you you sadistic bastard.. ;) lol

I must admit that I am at a point in my life where it feels rewarding to "play" around with different concepts and theories, and since I never will go pro and are just a happy amateur, albeit a passionate one, im guessing its cool, but all this has made me thinking of a time when I was younger "and didnt know any better, lol" and was running 3-10km every day and somethimes was running both mornings and evenings... I have always been frigin awfull with soccer and other sports that involves balls or pucks, but at that time I kind of made up for it by running around like some kind of ethiopian on crack for 2 hours straigth when playing a "summer game" with friends that actually know what they was doing...;)
Of course I was a weak skinny fuck back then to...;)

[krellik]

.....And something just droped on me...

Now that your an mma wanabe like the rest of us (...just joking..) burpees might be the best things since gangsta rap for you!

Basicly a "burpee" is an sprawl directly followed by an "explosvie outlet" (tha jump)... Much similar to a "sprawl n knee" and "sprawl n punch" .....just food for thought....

Seriously if you can get an fat dwarf like myself do some running can the fat dwarf get Vilo to do some burpees....?;)