Cardiovascular system and training to failure

[1mmort4l]

It is widely known that training to failure during weight training often is not a good idea, and lately I have been thinking about cardio and conditioning training to failure.
Also, specific maximum strength exertion week in week out beats you up, so mixing it up needs to be done, but what about cardio work?

For me, it is VERY mentally tough to go to actual cardio failure when smashing out some hiit but i'm sure I have been there, or close.

Has anybody read any studies or have personal knowledge regarding the pros and cons of training cardio to failure, or close to?
Obviously the body adapts, therefore the failure point is extended, but must one keep within a particular intensity or heart rate range, or is it "ok" to be smashing out hiit with a HR above 90%, with a look of death on your face? (something that just wouldn't be accepted by residents of a commercial gym. Possibly have the paramedics called for you etc..)

A main reason for not going 90+% for strength is CNS related, so surely the CNS has something to do with the CVS..

I didn't actually get my point across very effectively, but I will leave it at that. Hopefully you get what i'm saying.

Cheers.

[Standard]

I've never come across anything talking about conditioning to failure being very detrimental to your goals. The main issue with strength training to failure is the CNS but the affect of training to failure on the CNS is negatively related to the rep range that you are working in. Doing sets of 15 to failure has a dramatically smaller affect than working in lower rep ranges say singles or doubles. Interesting question though.

[JSN]

what do you mean by going to failure, like failure to keep a certain pace, or like can't take another step?

[Cap'n]

Originally Posted by JSN

what do you mean by going to failure, like failure to keep a certain pace, or like can't take another step?

"going to failure" for cardio to me is pushing yourself until you pass out in some park with vomit stains on your shirt and snot smeared on your cheeks.

[1mmort4l]

Originally Posted by JSN

what do you mean by going to failure, like failure to keep a certain pace, or like can't take another step?

I mean like taking another step basically, or close enough. I actually think i would always be able to take another step (life threatening reserve held by the body.) Or mental commitment.

For example.. The other day doing some hiit but using moderately heavy weights..
I felt sort of ok( ) during the last set, scrunching my face, exploding as hard as i could etc.. but as soon as i finished, within 10 seconds my breathing became much harder, my head was spinning, and i really couldn't get enough oxygen. i could have gone slightly harder with the hiit, and if i did i may have passed out.

[1mmort4l]

Originally Posted by Alan Goode

"going to failure" for cardio to me is pushing yourself until you pass out in some park with vomit stains on your shirt and snot smeared on your cheeks.

Hahah, thats not bad... I can picture that happening to me. Kinda like when i used to use Nunchaks (sp?) when i was 16.. I woke up outside on the dirt, with my Chaks next to me, and lump on my temple.

[IronMaidenfan#1]

Good thread. I know what the TS is feeling as I've felt like that a lot also. I find that I'm not really satisfied with cardio work that isn't HIIT or similar. I almost feel like I'm not training hard enough if I'm not doing HIIT which is a bad mental state to have but it's an easy state of mind to fall into. It's not a bad thing to want to push yourself but there needs to be some self control.

I'd be interested to read any studies regarding CV and training to failure.

[Gavin Smith]

Good question, as far as I know there's not the same effect on the CNS from high intensity cardio that you get from high intensity resistance work so you should be safe there.

Also if your training yourself up for a fight then your training should put greater demands on your CV system than the actual fight will, and anyone who's been in a tough fight knows how tired you feel, you literally feel like you're going to puke or pass out at some point in a hard fight, so therefore your training has to take you to that point!

So to answer your question yes you do need to take your cardio sessions to failure, just don't do it all the time, cycle your training and watch out for signs of over training ie broken sleep, elevated morning heart rate etc.

It's probably quite safe to say that training at that level of intensity is something that a needs to be built up to and if you train like that for too long you're gonna end up over trained and probably getting ill due to suppressed immune system.

Probably six weeks of pushing yourself like that should be enough and then you'll be able to maintain that level of fitness for a good twelve weeks without pushing yourself to such extremes.

[Ian Coe]

I applied my strength principles to cardio after being mr maniac with my fitness work.

You know, killing myself until I thought my form was being effected then taking a rest

WORST IDEA EVER.

My conditioning went down down down.
I thought by doing some sprints and taking loads of rest like I would for say squats would be benefical.
As part of a over reaching program I'm sure it would be good, but as it is left alone, I was explosive for about 30s then fucked for a few minutes


Conditioning is all about the pain and breathing like your about to spit up a lung (you know, fun)

[m-tech]

I thought training to CV failure would mean death?