[Tornado]

...because of idiots like this. This post was in response to me making a comment that high reps and light weight are used to gain size, which was meant to correct a person's comment that fighters use low weights and high reps to keep their size down. Then the "educated man" decides to sling jargon to make himself look smart. I kept my answer short and simple but it's a fucking shame that too many kinesiology students aren't being taught how to exercise. They know certain fundamentals and have an OK model of human movement, but they really have no idea how to exercise. What pisses me off even more is that half of the people I work on or train are kinesiology grads that end up getting pissed off because they didn't learn the stuff they were expecting to learn. When I say I'm pissed, I'm not pissed at the students, I'm pissed off for them! I'm not bashing the entire field but there are too many exercise physiologists that really don't know fuck all about the hows and whys of exercise or proper movement fundamentals. arrggh.

Anyway, end of rant. Here's a cut and paste of the short conversation. I tried to keep it short since it wasn't the right forum, which is why I'm putting it here.




Originally Posted by TitoIsTheMan
Apparently you don't either. Your muscles are broken down into three types. Type I-Slow Oxidative, Type IIA Fast Oxidative Glycolytic and Type IIB- Fast Glycolytic. The Type IIA and and B fibers are used for quick bursts of high intensity muscle contraction, such as lifting your one rep max in the bench press, or a hockey player who's on a breakaway. These fast twitch fibers have a larger diameter than their slow twitch counterparts and rely on Creatine Phosphate, Lactic Acid cycle and anaerobic glycolysis for energy production. Bodybuilders are targeting their fast twitch muscle fibers due to their high anabolic (muscle synthesis) capability and the slow twitch fibers will take on the characteristics of fast twitch fibers when exposed to constant heavy lifting just as an endurance athlete's FOG and FG fibers will take on the characteristics of slow twitch fibers (high mitochondrial density and the ability to use oxygen for ATP production). You can go ahead and dispute me Tornado, but just know that I hold a Bachelor of Science in Sports Medicine. Alot of you fuckers on here talk out your ass with no facts to back shit up. It gets to be comical at times.



My response:


Just know that I hold a BSc in Pharmacology & Toxicology, have trained numerous powerlifters, weightlifters, bodybuilders, and fighters, and have apprenticed (and I still am apprenticing) under some of the best S&C coaches and life extionists in the world.

Relatively speaking, bodybuilders train LIGHT, which is aslo why they don't have and cannot have the same myofibrillar density as powerlifters or weightlifters, regardless of bodyweight. Oddly enough you never mentioned the primary functional unit within the muscle. The muscles of bodybuilders are mostly swollen sarcoplasm you fucking jackass. Don't give me this "I have a degree in sport medicine" bullshit because if you had any idea of what you were talking about you would understand that bodybuilders are NOT type IIb/c athletes, they're mostly type I and IIa posers, which explains the weakness of bodybuilders relative to their strength athlete counterparts of the same weight. So please, remove your head from your ass burn your text books. You didn't learn shit and your money was wasted.

Good day.

[Barut]

I didn't realize you were so smrt. I mean that.

He's a douche. You won. Throat punch a homeless man.

[Bamaispriceless]

Originally Posted by Barut

I didn't realize you were so smrt. I mean that.

He's a douche. You won. Throat punch a homeless man.

*Tries to decipher whether this is extreme sarcasm, a serious response, or a mixture*

[Barut]

Originally Posted by Bamaispriceless

*Tries to decipher whether this is extreme sarcasm, a serious response, or a mixture*

The first sentence was meant to be a funny compliment. I am impressed with his book learning.

[Tornado]

Originally Posted by Barut

The first sentence was meant to be a funny compliment. I am impressed with his book learning.

I know what you meant and thanks. Guys like that are annoying as hell. I respect that we all have our unique training styles based on the information we've sought. I always liked this forum because there are a lot of guys who post here that have no formal education in sports science or physiology (or biology in general for that matter) and despite that still manage to have a fun and productive passion, yet the guy with formal education on the topic never learned to apply his knowledge to the field. It's messed up and it's annoying.

[Bamaispriceless]

Originally Posted by Barut

The first sentence was meant to be a funny compliment. I am impressed with his book learning.

Cool, I thought it was funny, but I didn't know if the "smrt" was just irony or a funny comment, lol.

[DEVILsSON]

I am not surprised. I have a friend who graduated in kinesiology also. He never lifted weights really. Just a tiny bit bench/curl for a little while. The uni made him get a basic training certification before he graduated. I think that'a damn shame. There's a huge disparity between information being taught and how it's applied in real life as you so bluntly stated. I wholeheartedly agree that BS in itself is very limited in the way it's most commonly done. Most people need a MS to be able to apply the information in a meaningful manner or apprentice/learn on their own....

It's nice to have a really smart guy on our forum.

[PhxJudoJujitsu]

Originally Posted by Tornado

...because of idiots like this. This post was in response to me making a comment that high reps and light weight are used to gain size, which was meant to correct a person's comment that fighters use low weights and high reps to keep their size down. Then the "educated man" decides to sling jargon to make himself look smart. I kept my answer short and simple but it's a fucking shame that too many kinesiology students aren't being taught how to exercise. They know certain fundamentals and have an OK model of human movement, but they really have no idea how to exercise. What pisses me off even more is that half of the people I work on or train are kinesiology grads that end up getting pissed off because they didn't learn the stuff they were expecting to learn. When I say I'm pissed, I'm not pissed at the students, I'm pissed off for them! I'm not bashing the entire field but there are too many exercise physiologists that really don't know fuck all about the hows and whys of exercise or proper movement fundamentals. arrggh.

Anyway, end of rant. Here's a cut and paste of the short conversation. I tried to keep it short since it wasn't the right forum, which is why I'm putting it here.




Originally Posted by TitoIsTheMan
Apparently you don't either. Your muscles are broken down into three types. Type I-Slow Oxidative, Type IIA Fast Oxidative Glycolytic and Type IIB- Fast Glycolytic. The Type IIA and and B fibers are used for quick bursts of high intensity muscle contraction, such as lifting your one rep max in the bench press, or a hockey player who's on a breakaway. These fast twitch fibers have a larger diameter than their slow twitch counterparts and rely on Creatine Phosphate, Lactic Acid cycle and anaerobic glycolysis for energy production. Bodybuilders are targeting their fast twitch muscle fibers due to their high anabolic (muscle synthesis) capability and the slow twitch fibers will take on the characteristics of fast twitch fibers when exposed to constant heavy lifting just as an endurance athlete's FOG and FG fibers will take on the characteristics of slow twitch fibers (high mitochondrial density and the ability to use oxygen for ATP production). You can go ahead and dispute me Tornado, but just know that I hold a Bachelor of Science in Sports Medicine. Alot of you fuckers on here talk out your ass with no facts to back shit up. It gets to be comical at times.



My response:


Just know that I hold a BSc in Pharmacology & Toxicology, have trained numerous powerlifters, weightlifters, bodybuilders, and fighters, and have apprenticed (and I still am apprenticing) under some of the best S&C coaches and life extionists in the world.

Relatively speaking, bodybuilders train LIGHT, which is aslo why they don't have and cannot have the same myofibrillar density as powerlifters or weightlifters, regardless of bodyweight. Oddly enough you never mentioned the primary functional unit within the muscle. The muscles of bodybuilders are mostly swollen sarcoplasm you fucking jackass. Don't give me this "I have a degree in sport medicine" bullshit because if you had any idea of what you were talking about you would understand that bodybuilders are NOT type IIb/c athletes, they're mostly type I and IIa posers, which explains the weakness of bodybuilders relative to their strength athlete counterparts of the same weight. So please, remove your head from your ass burn your text books. You didn't learn shit and your money was wasted.

Good day.

No offense, but he's right, and your not, so what exactly are you pissed about? Most bodybuilders are not large due to sarcoplasmic hypertrophys, it is due mostly to myofibril hypertrophy. While they may not have the strength/mass ratio of Powerlifters and Olympic Lifters, they still have well developled type IIa muscle development. It's impossible to be 5'10" 215lbs at 3.5% of top amatuer bodybuilders by relying solely on high rep, low weight work, you wouldn not be able to build sufficient amounts of fast twitch muscles. Sure he went about it in a douche way, but none of what he said is incorrect.

[BabyPhenom]

And as I always say, some guys think you can learn everything from books whn there are so many things experience will teach you that a book will never be able to

[Tornado]

Originally Posted by PhxJudoJujitsu

It's impossible to be 5'10" 215lbs at 3.5% of top amatuer bodybuilders by relying solely on high rep, low weight work, you wouldn not be able to build sufficient amounts of fast twitch muscles.

The point is that you don't need to train fast twitch fibers to increase size. Two prime examples I can give you are the training methods of Scott Abel, who does nothing but train bodybuilders for a living, and a former IFBB pro Nimrod King. One of my friends and trainers was turned into a 300 pound plus monster by Scott, however, despite his strength, most of the training they did consisted of endless sets of pump sets with what would've been estimated to be betwee 50% and 70% of 1RM done with a slow cadence. Unless there's some force (acceleration) being produced with each rep, this type of training really doesn't recruit higher threshold motor units unless the muscles are taken close to their fatiguing point, which should be avoided by strength athletes anyway since constantly fatiguing (or training a muscle to failure) increases end plate threshold, which decreases potential force production. Whatever increase in fiber diameter that might occur isn't happening in fast glycolytic fibers, it's mostly occuring in slow oxidative and slow glycolytic fibers.

Nimrod King is another example. Google him and take a look a look at his thighs. Interestingly enough he rarely squatted more that 225 lbs in the gym, yet he would do countless reps with that weight. A couple of the older guys who got me into strength training used to ask Nimrod why he wouldn't lift heavier. His response was more or less, "Who cares about strength? I just want to be big."

The bottom line is training for size doesn't necessarily require stimulating fast twitch fibers. It doesn't hurt to do it but but targeting higher threshold motor units isn't a requisite to increasing apparent muscular size.