[Ayin]

alright, I have been following the 3 day split routine found in the stickies since the effective beggining of my wieghtlifting, for those who have forgotten it looks like this

Day one: Deadlifts
Deadlifts 5X5
One or two deadlift assistance exercises
Upper body pull exercise (eg. BORs or pullups)

Day Two: Bench
Bench Press 5X5
One or two bench press assistance lifts

Day Three: Squats
Squats 5X5
Front Squats 3-4X6
Whatever ham/lowback/quad assistance you’d like, but keep it limited


With my assistance lifts put in the routine is as follows (also shows the last Lbs I did for each)

Deadlifts 5X5 240lb
Bent Over Rows 4x8 120lb
Shrugs 4x6 150lb
Stiff Legged Deadlifts 4x8 220lb

Bench Press 5X5 160lb
Overhead Press 4x8 70lb
Skull Crushers 4x6 (I have recently had to stop doing these, as they aggravate my elbows)
Incline Bench Press 4x8 130lb

Squats 5X5 170lb
Lunges 4x8 70lb
Front Squats 3-4X6 130lb


I have followed this routine for 22 weeks fairly solidly (there were three weeks in there that I effectively took off, doing only Deadlift day exercises, and am now in the process of recovering my previous Squat numbers, which was around 220lb), with my short term goals of being able to Deadlift and Squat 2xmy bodyweight and bench my bodyweight (started out as 155, now 170).
Up until this point my progression was simply to put additional weight onto my main three lifts every time I did them. I started all of them with very light weight for the first week, then up to a weight I could perform relatively easily, and am now well beyond what I would have been able to do in the beggining in terms of weight. For my assistance lifts increasing weight was also the goal, but I tended to raise it in smaller increments.
Recently I have been reading on Periodization (again from the stickies) and a better system than just putting more weight on everytime, and I feel I have a level of ability that would allow me to start into a more difficult program. In the first of the articles posted, Linear (or Western) periodization is discussed (Linear Periodization - http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle....le=body_129per) and although at the end of the article the authour shows that there are superior methods (also listed), he does make mention that this is perhaps the most commonly used and widely known system, and that it does work to a point.

I have decided that I would like to follow this system for atleast two full cycles before trying anything else, and my reasons for this are two fold.
1- Since it is the most widely known and accepted system, I would like to have had some
experience in it so I am better able to relate the information given to me from others to
personal experience.
2- Since it is comparatively basic, and since there is no true and immediate downside to
using it, I would like to use it as a simple starting point before moving into the more
complicated (albeit effective) systems.

I was wondering if others on this board have used this system (I know, I should check the training logs, but I was looking for an easier and more responsive communication) and how they approached problems identified within this write up, such problems are:

? It's a percentage-based program
? It starts with a high volume
? It only has one peak
? Your abilities aren't maintained
? The program has no direction to the future

The percentage part should not be an issue for me, as I do not see the real difficulty there, and am capable of basic mathematics, and as I said before I feel I am at a good level of fitness so the starting with a high volume is not a large concern. I am not concerned with the peaking as I have no bent towards competition at this point, and the maintainance of abilities is something that I doubt I (as a comparative begginer) will notice.
The part that most interests me is how it apparantly has no direction towards the future. I assumed that at the end, you would simply take your new 1 rep max, go back through the calculations, and start again, and indeed this is what the author says is the most common strategy. Is there a reason that would not work?
Also, the point is raised that the entire workout is directed towards your main three lifts, and that you are left on you own for the supplemental lifts. I was wondering for others who have used this routine, what to do with the other lifts (eg, stiff legged deadlifts).
Should they follow the same volume/intensity system as the main lift? That seems time consuming, and I do not think it would lead to great results, as I would think it would lend itself to burnout. But then, should they be dropped? Or maintained at their current level? Trained seperately using a different system?

Mostly I am looking for those with experience using this system of periodization (or having used it in the past) and asking for any advice or answeres to my questions. Thank you in advance.

[BabyPhenom]

To start off, the best article you could read is the Bill Starr 5x5. Once you understand that, you'll bsically have a grasp of what linear periodization really is.

[oyaji poi]

after awhile your body gets used to that kind of progression. For the assistance lifts, you can change them every few weeks, so periodization doesn't matter so much for them. A deadlift will always be a deadlift, it's part of the powerlifting competition lifts so you must do it, at least occasionally. But a straight-leg deadlift can be replaced with a romanian deadlift, or unilateral work, or a glute-ham raise.

After 22-3 weeks you might be interested in a different programme structure. I switched to a 3-day a week Total Body programme. I really like it.

[anvar]

are you a fighter or a powerlifter?

[takeahnase]

Originally Posted by oyaji poi

A deadlift will always be a deadlift, it's part of the powerlifting competition lifts so you must do it, at least occasionally.

How is this relevant on an MMA forum?

[CelebritySexist]

Originally Posted by takeahnase

How is this relevant on an MMA forum?

This is gonna be good...

[takeahnase]

I don't see how the deadlift being part of powerlifting competition lifts implies that one must do deadlifts. One should do deadlifts because they are a heavy compound movement and a great way of training the posterior chain. Whether they are required exercises in competitions of some sport should be of no relevance. If the thread starter intends to compete in powerlifting my statement was stupid of course.

[oyaji poi]

*takes a deep breath*


actually, not a bad question. the general programme and theories for "strength" around here come from powerlifting. why? various reasons, but mainly because "limit strength" has greater carry over to MMA and pretty much anything else. For example if one were to follow a routine focused on endurance, that strength would not carry over well to lifting people or give you any explosive power. It's pretty well understood that the strength developed on a powerlifting programme will tranfer and develop into other forms of strength, but not vice-versa. Powerlifting has a ton written about it, and a lot to offer in terms of building a base of strength. that strength base is best developed through powerlifting-influenced programmes, rather than bodybuilding or olympic lifting, though they too have their merits.


the deadlift-bench-squat routine give you a base to work from, they're considered fundamental. a snatch is great (har har...) but a bit difficult to learn on one's own. bodybuilding routines are great for when you're challenged to a pose-off in speedo's, which rarely happens in MMA.

So, the relevance lies in the foundation of strength most people need. from there they can go on to do other things. Powerlifting, with all the information available, provides a ways and means to an end, that of being a stronger MMA guy. Yes you could "not" do deadlifts, but then you would be missing out on a lot of benefits. Better to take what is known and develop from it, rather than start a whole new line of thinking.

Just like the striking of MIXED martial arts comes from mainly boxing and kickboxing rather than coming up with something totally new, the strength training comes from powerlifting and occasionaly o-lifting. Lately in gyms there is more of a focus on "striking for MMA", so maybe we'll see "strength training for MMA", but the basics will be the same. For example, just like the straight right will be a fundamental, so will the deadlift. The difference would lie in the delivery. Your stance would change for MMA, so too would the set-rep scheme. But in the beginning, you have to learn the basics, ie develop a base skill set for striking, or a strength base to carry you into more sport specific issues.

In the meantime, we have Powerlifting to give us our strength base, boxing/kickboxing for striking, bjj/judo etc for grappling. They're basic but effective. You can add the fancy stuff later, once you have a base.

[takeahnase]

Sorry, you misunderstood me. I agree with everything you wrote in your post. I was just nit-picking: You said one must do deadlifts because they are required in PL competition. I found that to be a strange argument, I thought (I'm repeating myself here) one should/must do deadlifts because they are the best exercise for posterior chain development and not because some sports organization requires them in their competitions. You don't recommend Ogoshi as a throw because it's required in some belt testing procedure in Judo, but because it's a good throw.

[SmashiusClay]

You're both wrong.

You should do deadlifts because they're freakin' awesome.