[Penkis]

I tap when I feel pain and know that I'm not getting out.
It's better to lose and come back another day.

[Will_N.O.]

Originally Posted by txfighter13

with something like an armlock you are going to tap if it is locked it. however, a choke you can hold off a little longer in a comp. if you are defending correctly. if you are truely got you have to tap.

Yeah, I was mostly thinking about armbars. I know different people feel different ways about this, but I would feel pretty embarrased if I passed out because I was too stubborn / ignorant to tap.

But being embarassed and back on the mat the next day is one thing. Being out for a year with a broken elbow is a different story completely.

[Will_N.O.]

Originally Posted by judofarmerbob

i tell people who bitch about tap time the same line i give the dudes who find out i've banged their girlfriend:

"that's a 'you' problem, not a 'me" problem."

I hear ya and mostly agree, although I think there's still got to be a line there somewhere.

If you really went as fast and hard as you could with an armbar against a gassed and / or overmatched opponent, you could defintely break his arm before he could even react with a tap, and that IMO wouldn't be a reasonable thing to do.

I am pretty sure that isn't what you meant - I did see the rest of your post about holding off on the kimura - but looking at those YouTube vids, there was at least one where it seemed like the attacker just blasted straight through to snap against an overmatched opponent without even a slight pause to give the guy a chance to tap. IMO, that's kind of a dickhead thing to do and will probably come back around eventually.

[cheath]

Yeah, being new to BJJ this was one of my biggest fears about going into a tournament against guys I don't know. An advanced person probably knows when he has the move down, and has the technique to allow himself to go slow. I was afraid I'd get some novice like myself who has to rely on speed rather than technique, and would break something.

I tap pretty early. Probably due to a combination of being new, having no ego, and not wanting to find my limits. And oh yeah, no health insurance. If a guy is straightening me out for an armbar, I tap before he even gets extended, because I know my skill to escape isn't there yet. But of all the years I've played sports clean, I just always follow the Golden Rule and hope that a hand shake at the beginning of a match actually signifies a show of sportsmanship. I'd never try to hurt anybody or send them home, and I hope nobody ever does the same to me. In the end, it's all about respecting the other guy as a fellow BJJ competitor.

On that note, my instructor told me that he watched some guy at a tournament purposely hurt his opponent in the match before going against my instructor. My instructor said because 1) the guy was a dick and didn't honor sportsmanship and 2) because he feared for his own safety, when he had an ankle lock put in, he made sure the guy was done for the day.

I guess I'm a firm believe in the Golden Rule though.

[wOg]

Originally Posted by Zankou

I tap right away. Instantly. I'm an amateur, and I don't give a damn about the last 2% of resistance. If you have an arm extended, you've already totally fucked up. Why pretend you haven't? Maybe if there are seconds to go in the Pan Ams or Mundials championship round would I fight it.

The tap is just a formality. The BJJ leading to that point is what matters, and whether you tap or not, you got pwned.

QFT.

I make guys work for the choke. But I don't play around with my elbows and knees. I'd rather tap a little too soon and train more than have to sit out for six weeks--or six months.

Great point about "the tap is just a formality. The BJJ leading to that point is what matters." I agree with that 1,000%. It reminds me of how much I hate it when audiences cheer more for submission escapes than submission attempts.