Why do Judoka give up their back??

2swole · 04-08-2007, 02:17 PM

After watching takimoto, obviously a skilled grappler give up his back twice fairly easily now to fighters clearly not on his level (moussassi and galasic)..reading about it somewhere passingly the tendency..and rolling with a brown belt judoka back when I was an absolute rookie to the bjj game and really raw..

i pose the question, do judoka guys tend to give up their back fairly easily? I mean i took the judoka's back (full hooks) and it was apparent he was trying and not taking it easy (it was his first class, haven't see him around since), using a fair amount of strength.

(Just a note, not implying i owned him or anything, it was a friendly session and he got me with a gi clock choke at the time and i didn't know what it was.)

But watching takimoto makes me wonder if it's something inherent in their newaza??

Sambo234 · 04-08-2007, 02:32 PM

done mostly in Judo competition to stall so the ref will stand em up.

pollo loco · 04-08-2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sambo234

done mostly in Judo competition to stall so the ref will stand em up.

Yep, if they have a real defensive turtle and the other guy can't do anything with it then the ref will just stand them up.

**Q mystic** · 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2swole

After watching takimoto, obviously a skilled grappler give up his back twice fairly easily now to fighters clearly not on his level (moussassi and galasic)..reading about it somewhere passingly the tendency..and rolling with a brown belt judoka back when I was an absolute rookie to the bjj game and really raw..

i pose the question, do judoka guys tend to give up their back fairly easily? I mean i took the judoka's back (full hooks) and it was apparent he was trying and not taking it easy (it was his first class, haven't see him around since), using a fair amount of strength.

(Just a note, not implying i owned him or anything, it was a friendly session and he got me with a gi clock choke at the time and i didn't know what it was.)

But watching takimoto makes me wonder if it's something inherent in their newaza??

Its a tuff nut to crack if you're good at it.

Tak has given back often. So has Lombard. So has Nakamura. So has Karo. They've all made it thru them...better than mounted I am sure. Not the best of positions but not necessarily an end-all to one that is comfy there.

Judoka give back to prevent score from top control in judo and in mma. There are other options that they'll learn but when they have been doing them well for years it can be a safe place especially vs some more than others.(Tak went gaurd vs Kikuta, another judoka, from what I remeber)

Some will also go turtle to tap out to a choke rather than be punched out if they are exhausted, like Pavel/Aleks.

2swole · 04-08-2007, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pollo loco

Yep, if they have a real defensive turtle and the other guy can't do anything with it then the ref will just stand them up.

thanks

Hammer Time · 04-08-2007, 04:15 PM

same reason why wrestlers do to avoid the pin and escpape from mount. judo guys usually if ur a beggininer will let u take their back and so on

**Q mystic** · 04-08-2007, 04:46 PM

Mind you....certainly the wrong aspect to take if you ask me, just not as bad as it seems initially.

Tak should show some athleticism rather than 'playing judo for mma' on these guys and go for takedown to top and maintain. He HAS to have the ability to do it if he has no problem in taking them down.

batman69 · 04-08-2007, 05:04 PM

had a judo guy do that to me in the pan americans this year. he was up three advantages to two and as i was passing his guard he turtled to prevent me from scoring the points. he turtled so hard that i was able to pull him over backwards and secure the hooks before he could swivel around.

**Q mystic** · 04-08-2007, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by batman69

had a judo guy do that to me in the pan americans this year. he was up three advantages to two and as i was passing his guard he turtled to prevent me from scoring the points. he turtled so hard that i was able to pull him over backwards and secure the hooks before he could swivel around.

LMAO. I hear that. I have often went for turtle as hard as a throw before.

colinm · 04-08-2007, 06:48 PM

BTW, beautiful guard work by takimoto last night. ude gatame > juji, switch off to an omoplata> sweep and attack the other arm with a kimura...VERY NICE!