[Drew Foster]

Originally Posted by IChinaManI

Am I dick for getting frustrated during grip fighting? There's a buddy of mine down at judo, and I'm glad to work on grips right, but during randori the whole match is literally grip fighing. I try to work over the shoulder, and the standard or neck grip. However I understand not wanting me to get the neck or over shoulder grip, but whenever I go for standard grip he breaks my lapel grip, and then I break his sleeve grip, now we're back to square one. This goes on atleast 6-9 times the entire round. Eventually I just try to go in for a throw with no grip at all and just fall down lol. I started getting frstrated at him, and today I told him to just get a grip and fight. Not hostile or anything, but you could tell i was frustrated. He's a blue belt which is one higher than me. And I know I shouldn't be such an asshole, but we're good friends and like it's just frustrating cause it does neither of us any good, we never get any throws. And it's not ippon judo, let alone koka judo. It's the same old gripping sequence over and over. I grab with my pinky tight, so I have a loose wrist, but I don't want to resort to the whitebelt full fist grab with lots of tension. I donno this might just be me being stupid. It's just frustrating, I understand wanting a dominant grip and not wanting me to get one. But he's not getting one on me, and like eventually just fight neautral, so we can fight. It's just like pull and tugging, when we both spend the whole round doing the same grip, break grip, separate sequence. I donno maybe im just a dick.

No you aren't a dick! Grip fighting is important I guess, but I say gust get grips and work on techiques! I'm with you all the way man. I wanna work for thows!

[YeahBee]

man I feel bad now, we almost called an ambulance because i injured a dude during randori today, we had divided us into 2 groups so that the lower weight sparred amongst themselves and us big dudes to ourself,

I was feeling fine but the others didn't want to continue so one of the smaller ones said c'mon, (small in this ase about 80kilos), we grip fight and he attempts a throw and I counter and he screams in agony upon landing, he busted his knee hard, du'nt even know how it happend, t'was his bad knee and everything
I kept apologizing ut he is a cool dude, almsot ended up comforting me ):

[IChinaManI]

^ Don't feel bad man, thigns happen, and as training partners both parties understand the risks involved. Judo is still a contact/combat sport after all and things will happen. I understand the feeling though, sometimes I hurt people by mistake and feel bad about it. Like putting chokes or armbars on too hard on little guys.

Originally Posted by KenTheWalrus

At my club there is a group of 5-8 guys who grip fight constantly. It seems at times like they think they need the perfect grip and their opponent can't have a hand on them. A couple of them will even break a dominant grip just to push their opponent's grip off of their gi. I see it as a lot of wasted potential.

One of the head sensei won't teach grip fighting unless the person is around nikyu or ikkyu because new grip fighters tend to get preoccupied with grips and then fail to attack. A couple other guys who are national/international level judoka preach grip fighting so it gets kinda awkward at times. I personally would rather attack than have a grip fight the whole match.

The only grip that I will break everytime my opoonent puts it on is the over-the-back grip. Anything else I can work in a dominant grip or a counter so I don't worry too much about it. Other than over-the-back, I usually only break a grip when I want my opponent to grip up on a different part of my gi or if I'm screwing with them.

Another thing that bothers me is when guys will attempt to break a grip, but won't actually break the grip. To me this is a huge waste of energy and a huge tell that they are uncomfortable with that grip. If someone is going to try to break a grip then they should always break the grip on the first try. -ken

Yeah i'm guilty of not being able to break grip first try at times, but yeah so my frustration isn't unjustified is it? I mean I still feel bad, but it just gets annoying hen we waste a good randori round doing the same damn thing over and over.

[Q mystic]

Originally Posted by IChinaManI

Am I dick for getting frustrated during grip fighting? There's a buddy of mine down at judo, and I'm glad to work on grips right, but during randori the whole match is literally grip fighing. I try to work over the shoulder, and the standard or neck grip. However I understand not wanting me to get the neck or over shoulder grip, but whenever I go for standard grip he breaks my lapel grip, and then I break his sleeve grip, now we're back to square one. This goes on atleast 6-9 times the entire round. Eventually I just try to go in for a throw with no grip at all and just fall down lol. I started getting frstrated at him, and today I told him to just get a grip and fight. Not hostile or anything, but you could tell i was frustrated. He's a blue belt which is one higher than me. And I know I shouldn't be such an asshole, but we're good friends and like it's just frustrating cause it does neither of us any good, we never get any throws. And it's not ippon judo, let alone koka judo. It's the same old gripping sequence over and over. I grab with my pinky tight, so I have a loose wrist, but I don't want to resort to the whitebelt full fist grab with lots of tension. I donno this might just be me being stupid. It's just frustrating, I understand wanting a dominant grip and not wanting me to get one. But he's not getting one on me, and like eventually just fight neautral, so we can fight. It's just like pull and tugging, when we both spend the whole round doing the same grip, break grip, separate sequence. I donno maybe im just a dick.

Dick? No way Chinaman. It justs sounds like I should maybe call the
waaahhhmbulance.

My judo opponents and I went thru our initial year or so of grip fighting playing a comp game called, 'grip, failed soto-makikomi to face and then pull gaurd. Yes, an initial loose attack on turtle to where you would pull gaurd. Opponent would go to left, right, lift you for matte or rest. The throw attempter got the split decision.

Later tho, if still forced into judo, you will learn good short sweet grip attacks upon contact. Ko-uchi, picks, single arm attacks where as a good honest attack might fail but can get you close enuff during his reflex response to get in for your better grip than his.

Gripping is an ugly ugly looking and feeling game initially but theres still alot more judo.

With my new coach at first...he would hit me with a koka at least on contact when we went hard. He got pissed one time in a different snarly manner and says 'Oh come on'. He meant that he thought I was being lazy and I wasn't. When I started getting them down he wuld throw me with seoi or uchimata w/o me setting an offense.

[IChinaManI]

^ lol I'm bitching hard about it, but it's so annoying. It does neither uof us any good lol, and we look like two girls that are fighitng and pulling at each other. teh ghey

[Happy Boy]

I don't mind fighting a good gripper if they are a positive gripper and are trying to get a good grip to throw you, I hate negative grippers who are good at grip fighting but thats all they do. You can spend an entire 5 minute randori with these guys just scrapping like mad to get a grip and they never go for anything. I suspect its negative grippers that people have the gripe with.

A good one I found for dealing with them is to attack immediately you get any grip, even one handed. Just as soon as you have anything go for a leg sweep of a pick up with a big kuzushi. Keep doing this and you can open 'em up a bit. Not letting them settle is the aim, in comps this especially works as it will look like they are doing nothing and you are forcing it, passivity galore. They drive me nuts though, some of them at home have been so bad that you could walk out with your arms out wide and let them take any grip and throw you, and they'd still take a stiff armed defensive stance and go for nothing, but as soon as you take yours they are trying to rip your hands off. Don't really get it here, its deemed really cowardly and if the coach sees it he goes nuts!!

[IChinaManI]

^i think what is basically happening in my case is i try to get an offensive grip, and he breaks so I grab a neautral grip and he breaks, so i break. And then no throw attempt happens. After a while I just try shit with no grip lol cause I'm bored of grip fighting. I like grip fighting when there is advancement. However this is just nothing lol. I mean i grip fight alot with the other experienced guys too, and they grip fight, but try to advance. It's like my buddy gets a dominant grip on me, and I can't break it, instead he goes tries to break my lapel grip giving up his dominant grip, and I break so we're back to square one. Oh well keep training I guess and stop being a whine-asaurus.

Oh I was wondering about how to counter the defense to the over the shoulder grip. Say I have an over the shoulder, the guy I have it on, goes two on one (other arm on my shoulder, not arm)and straightens out to get rid of my grip, or least keep it ineffective., and now I got nothing.

[KenTheWalrus]

No, you're not a dick, but the worst thing to do is get frustrated to the point when you attack and they have the superior grip to defend and counter. Some of the shodan and higher players at my club do this just to sucker less experienced guys into giving them sweet position.

An evil international player taught me the high rib punch in grip fighting.

When guys go for the shoulder or high lapel grip where they get the first grip and then stand at an agle to work in the second grip, I grab under their arm pit. The key is to get some space between the gi and the body. Whenever they come over to get the other grip I straight arm and throw my hips into it like a punch.

I never actually throw my elbow like I would for a punch, it's more like a straight arm that I can use to defend by keeping my distance or throw my rib punch. After they get frustrated enough to where they start to try to power into position through the stiff arm, I turn and pull them into seoi nage or kata garuma. The way I see it, if they want to try to frustrate me with grips before they attack I'm going to frustrate them with legal "strikes".

I know one thing, the Tai Otoshi jaw whammy is one of the most frustrating dirty tactics I've had the pleasure of tasting up close. I still get surprised by this one. -ken

[YeahBee]

brought back a silver and a bronze

Took silver in the HW, jsut 4 natural HWies, 2 were around 90-100kilos then me and another fatso

1st: Got russian grip and did a sumi gaeshi but i used the foot on the same side as my back grip

2d: agaisnt the fatso, double leg, passed hsi guard and he turned, wakigatame for me

3d: lost by two wazaris, shouldn't have been wazaris, I reversed all position on the ground and attacked him wqith several chokes and turtle attacks


Absolute
2 pool, some lighter dudes stepped up

1: Fatso again, more of a battle this time, I clocked him good with a left hook , got a knee kataguruma on him and pinned him

2d: A light dude, he was really fast, He reversed me when I had dragged him to the ground, he did a turtle sankaku jime but i didn't tap, I didn't realize that it was also a pin so I got out just in the nick of time, pinned him for the TAP

3: lost to a ippon, so frekkin fast it was ridiculus, ippon seo curled up liek a litte ball, this dude was 62 kilos 8(

Semi finale: lost to the dude I lost to in the HW's, he did a kinda kosote gake makikomi, I didn't hear that it was ippon and almsiot got a tap out of a lapel choke

bronze match, agaisnt a blue belt MW/LHW, i counterd his hip throw weith a big ass ura nage, knocked the wind out of him

Now I am going to drink some beer and pass out

2 of my kids won their classes, 1 came in second but lsot the finale due to injury

Now I am going to drink some beer and play GTA4

[Q mystic]

Originally Posted by IChinaManI

^ lol I'm bitching hard about it, but it's so annoying. It does neither uof us any good lol, and we look like two girls that are fighitng and pulling at each other. teh ghey

ahh, I see. sry.

Its gotta be doing you good tho. Hazta be.

Maybe travel more to fight/train with other fellas.

Or, just let him get grips somewhat and work from there. That will give you the learning advantage and you'll beat him easy in the long run...its how I learned ku and uchiki-daoshi among others...I mean, otherwise, why learn that shit if you always have good grips eh?