We need a judo thread.

[Darkslide632]

Originally Posted by YeahBee

I jump out of my pants any time i see a takedown that isn't a doubleleg

Well, I will agree with that. It's always nice to see something other than a shot.

[Doughbelly]

Originally Posted by Darkslide632

Ugh. How does that qualify as "sweet?"

From a technical standpoint it was pretty blah. Not having your head on the same side you're reaping is only thing, but he didn't even have an overhook from which he could pull down... which is obvious by the leg he was attacking flying up through the air. I don't see any effort on his part to put any weight on the leg he was supposed to be reaping, quite the opposite, actually.

Who says your head must be on the same side as the reaping leg? And where's it written in stone that you have to place the weight on the reaped leg?

O uchi gari can work effectively in any direction but forward and balance shifting and a good feel for which leg your opponent's weight is going is key if you're say, a combination/movement oriented uchi mata guy.

Guys at Nakamura's level know the variations. You don't take 3rd place at All Japan by being an untechnical goof. Whatever he was originally going for didn't turn out the way he wanted to, but you have no idea what his original intentions were.

[Darkslide632]

Originally Posted by Doughbelly

Who says your head must be on the same side as the reaping leg? And where's it written in stone that you have to place the weight on the reaped leg?

O uchi gari can work effectively in any direction but forward and balance shifting and a good feel for which leg your opponent's weight is going is key if you're say, a combination/movement oriented uchi mata guy.

Guys at Nakamura's level know the variations. You don't take 3rd place at All Japan by being an untechnical goof. Whatever he was originally going for didn't turn out the way he wanted to, but you have no idea what his original intentions were.

No one said that the head has to be on the same side, and apparently I left out the bit I meant to say about that aspect being debatable... HOWEVER, not putting your head on the same side as the leg you are reaping often causes exactly what happened in this video, which is that weight ended up on the wrong leg.

Who says that you have to place weight on the reaped leg? The Kodokan? Jigoro Kano himself? Look at the concept of reap. There are certainly tons of debates over the timing of many gari attacks, but weight needs to be on, or at least transferring to the leg being attacked (Though that is more closely the definition of how a sweep would be performed and thus the discussions about the timing of some reaping techniques). Putting the weight on one leg and then attacking the other is NOT a reap. That would be like claiming you could sweep a foot that was supporting all of the weight. If you understand the technical philosophies behind the techniques themselves, you'd know that statements like that make no sense.

On top of that, ouchi gari can most certainly be thrown in a forward direction.

That being said, I'm not ripping on his overall technical level. I am, however, ripping on that particular throw, and it was in no was, shape, or form a good example of ouchi gari. It was horrible. If I saw a yellow belt in my school throwing ouchi gari in that manner, I would be extremely unhappy. I would be unhappy with anyone but extremely new white belts attempting ouchi gari like that. Now that does not mean he isn't capable of doing a better job that what is seen in the video, but that particular attempt was poor. Very poor. Being punched in the face while you try to take people down with often cause that to happen.

I'm not rating him on what he was attempting to do, I am rating him on what actually happened... and what happened was a lot of suck.

[Doughbelly]

Originally Posted by Darkslide632

No one said that the head has to be on the same side, and apparently I left out the bit I meant to say about that aspect being debatable... HOWEVER, not putting your head on the same side as the leg you are reaping often causes exactly what happened in this video, which is that weight ended up on the wrong leg.

Who says that you have to place weight on the reaped leg? The Kodokan? Jigoro Kano himself? Look at the concept of reap. There are certainly tons of debates over the timing of many gari attacks, but weight needs to be on, or at least transferring to the leg being attacked (Though that is more closely the definition of how a sweep would be performed and thus the discussions about the timing of some reaping techniques). Putting the weight on one leg and then attacking the other is NOT a reap. That would be like claiming you could sweep a foot that was supporting all of the weight. If you understand the technical philosophies behind the techniques themselves, you'd know that statements like that make no sense.

On top of that, ouchi gari can most certainly be thrown in a forward direction.

That being said, I'm not ripping on his overall technical level. I am, however, ripping on that particular throw, and it was in no was, shape, or form a good example of ouchi gari. It was horrible. If I saw a yellow belt in my school throwing ouchi gari in that manner, I would be extremely unhappy. I would be unhappy with anyone but extremely new white belts attempting ouchi gari like that. Now that does not mean he isn't capable of doing a better job that what is seen in the video, but that particular attempt was poor. Very poor. Being punched in the face while you try to take people down with often cause that to happen.

I'm not rating him on what he was attempting to do, I am rating him on what actually happened... and what happened was a lot of suck.

Forward relative to uke, I should have been more clear.

Are you sure you really understand what's going on in this video/clip?

The best o uchi/uchi mata guys understand that these two techniques exist on a continuum. I'm going to let you chew on that before you try to lecture me again on what I do and I don't understand.

[Q mystic]

Originally Posted by YeahBee

Misaki vs Baroni



there is a sweet ouchi gari at about 1.40

Sounds like baroni could fight Takimoto soon.

[Q mystic]

Originally Posted by PedroCassidinho

Im kinda dissapointed in that to be honest. I knew Judo was inferior to BJJ on teh floor but i didn't think the gap was that large.

It isnt. For what? Im a judoka that has as much trouble with wrestlers that dont have any concept of back fighting and with little knowledge of subs. They are extremely limited but extremely good at certain very important basics that can take a judoka out. They're dangerous. Judoka vs bjj is similar.

[Q mystic]

Originally Posted by PedroCassidinho

Naw man, I don't want to turn this into a Judo V Bjj threat at all and I am sorry if it came across that way. I love Judo, I just kinda thought thata good Judo black belt was as good on teh ground as a BJJ expert and I am shocked that a Judo black is only regarded as teh equal of a blue.

Listen. Its just a different game Pedro. A judoka will smoke any simlar wrestler on the ground via subs but if he gets to punch that makes his whole game do a 180. You just keep fighting hard judo. Hard. You're fine. Don't relate games. Judo just makes you a killer. Smart and fast and a very very wide concept. You can almost hang with ANY specialist. Mack, that is something. Go to a wrestling club and a bjj club and in both, you'll be cool. None else can do the same w/o specialty work.

Best smhmest. Thats sooo far away. You just wanna give everyone a good fight and you will.

YouTube - Loverboy - Lovin' Every Minute Of It

[PedroCassidinho]

Originally Posted by Q mystic

Listen. Its just a different game Pedro. A judoka will smoke any simlar wrestler on the ground via subs but if he gets to punch that makes his whole game do a 180. You just keep fighting hard judo. Hard. You're fine. Don't relate games. Judo just makes you a killer. Smart and fast and a very very wide concept. You can almost hang with ANY specialist. Mack, that is something. Go to a wrestling club and a bjj club and in both, you'll be cool. None else can do the same w/o specialty work.

Best smhmest. Thats sooo far away. You just wanna give everyone a good fight and you will.

YouTube - Loverboy - Lovin' Every Minute Of It

Cool, it sounds a lot better when you put it like that. I just hated the idea of going out and busting my ass for years to get to a high level and then being sneered at by a BJJ player as basic, but yeah the way you've worded it gives me more faith and confidence.

I got Judo tonight and the only other low rank is on holiday. I can practically feel the GI burns already.

[Darkslide632]

Originally Posted by Doughbelly

Forward relative to uke, I should have been more clear.

Are you sure you really understand what's going on in this video/clip?

The best o uchi/uchi mata guys understand that these two techniques exist on a continuum. I'm going to let you chew on that before you try to lecture me again on what I do and I don't understand.

Once again, you seem to be judging the clip on what could have happened, rather than what did. You also seem to be judging the video based on your own description of what happened, or could have happened, rather than the post by Yeahbee in which he described the technique as ouchi gari, which is the post I responded to.

It was a shit attempt at ouchi gari. You'll not change my mind of that. Did he try to salvage and/or transition to uchi mata, which also failed? Sure. But that's not what we were discussing.

If you want to have discussions about what might have happened, or what could have happened in every clip that is posted, discussions are going to be long, unfocused and virtually useless. On top of that, discussing how great an ouchi gari that places the weight on the opposite leg is isn't helpful to anyone, despite the fact that it might be useful in transitioning.

Ouchi gari happens to be one of my favorite throws, and I also use it to transition to other throws. Specifically harai goshi which is my tokui waza. I am well aware of the usefulness of ouchi gari for setting up throws like harai goshi and/or uchi mata. I am, however, also aware that if my ouchi gari was good, I'd never have to throw harai goshi or uchi mata. If I have to use either of those throws, then my ouchi gari was not as good as it could/should have been... which is the case in this video. Can I and/or do I purposefully attack with a poor ouchi gari in an effort to get my opponent to step over my leg, thus stepping into my harai goshi? Sure. And maybe that's what was happening here... but as I just said, it's a poor ouchi gari that allows it to happen.

[Doughbelly]

Originally Posted by Darkslide632

Once again, you seem to be judging the clip on what could have happened, rather than what did. You also seem to be judging the video based on your own description of what happened, or could have happened, rather than the post by Yeahbee in which he described the technique as ouchi gari, which is the post I responded to.

It was a shit attempt at ouchi gari. You'll not change my mind of that. Did he try to salvage and/or transition to uchi mata, which also failed? Sure. But that's not what we were discussing.

If you want to have discussions about what might have happened, or what could have happened in every clip that is posted, discussions are going to be long, unfocused and virtually useless. On top of that, discussing how great an ouchi gari that places the weight on the opposite leg is isn't helpful to anyone, despite the fact that it might be useful in transitioning.

Ouchi gari happens to be one of my favorite throws, and I also use it to transition to other throws. Specifically harai goshi which is my tokui waza. I am well aware of the usefulness of ouchi gari for setting up throws like harai goshi and/or uchi mata. I am, however, also aware that if my ouchi gari was good, I'd never have to throw harai goshi or uchi mata. If I have to use either of those throws, then my ouchi gari was not as good as it could/should have been... which is the case in this video. Can I and/or do I purposefully attack with a poor ouchi gari in an effort to get my opponent to step over my leg, thus stepping into my harai goshi? Sure. And maybe that's what was happening here... but as I just said, it's a poor ouchi gari that allows it to happen.

No. I'm not judging the clip based on anything. I'm not judging the clip at all. Did you read something written by me about the actual merits of Nakamura's technique in the clip? I don't think so. At least not till this post.

I did respond to the elements of your posts where you made declarative statements that aren't necessarily true at all. It is not necessary to have your head on the same side as your reaping leg. It is not necessary to have uke shift his weight toward to reaped leg. It is still possible to finish as a driving o-uchi by grabbing the pant leg anywhere. Even behind the thigh is enough. This is a very powerful contest variation if you have a good, low entries.

I did ask you to look at that o uchi again to see if you really understood it. I was trying to be a nice guy because I think other people missed it, too. You want to know what I think did happen? Nakamura missed his transition to uchi mata. EVERYTHING about that clip, including all the clinch, the hopping, the rotation AND what happens after they hit the ground makes more sense.

Your letting yourself lock into one mode of thinking. Why, in your mind, does o-uchi lead into harai or uchi mata? Uchi mata and harai entries can lead into o uchi.