Use of Uchikomi

[Aesopian]

I don't travel many judo circles, but I'm sure this topic has been addressed at length amongst judoka (as evidenced by articles like this), so I'm hoping for a summarized answer from the informed amongst you. And you'll have to forgive me if I misuse the term, but my Japanese isn't what it used to be.

I was wondering how common static uchikomi is in judo as a whole, and how much it is trained in comparison to "in motion" drilling or "dynamic uchikomi", as I've heard it called (though I'm not sure if that's the proper term, since the throw is fully executed, not stopped early).

For example, I have heard American judo criticised for being too "stiff" because too much uchikomi is done without a free movement and footwork, and that Cuban judo (for example) is considered much more dynamic since they stress drilling in motion (but not true randori). I had a judoka tell me offhand that he suspect 80% of American dojos stress uchikomi over live drilling.

So what's the scoop?

This ties into the I-method threads that I've been making recently.

[Q mystic]

Damn good question aesopian.

I myself, and I'll bet speaking for the minority, believe that static is 97% of the ball game. It is very very much imo for 'reflex'. Just the ole neuromuscular pathway. I mean if you can train full out like an olympian it may be much better, but I would rather have you work over 'more' different techs from there.

Leave, imo, the moving uchi type for more 'light' randori. If you have a few extra hours then....

For the game you are playing I would say static uchi and lots of drills throwing and combos and then light - heavy randori with no times.

In fighting an equal it will be scramble and next thing you know you throw. Because he fit like a peg.

I will take abuse for this 'nice sounding' news tho.

P.S.- I always considered uchikomi just going in and out. No throw.

[Aesopian]

How are you building a real reflex without a stimulus to react to (movement, footwork, etc.)?

[Q mystic]

It just seems to provide a good base. and light randori if you want to work it somewhat.

Besides, when working moving uchikomi for grappling seems a stretch somewhat.

Let me put it this way. Moving throwing drills (lite randori) seems much more valuable for time and alot less awkward(imo) than moving uchikomi. I felt doing moving uchkomi as in move, turn, lift and load..and then STOP.... seemed kinda off and I twisted my ankle often. The momentum seems to get in the way.

Many top belts praise it but I have never seen it done without looking like kata.

Getting them to move without real force never seemed the same. 'They' react differently.

[KDawg]

Actually, in Canada anyways, the movement for coaching/instruction is towards moving uchikomi and away from static uchikomi. Your questioning is exactly why this is changing. Moving (dynamic) uchikomi actually drills movements that you will use during randori; whereas, static uchikomi is more for aerobic/anaerobic training.

I don't use static uchikomi for teaching at all anymore (the closest to it is crashmats, which we do with movement anyways).

... just thought... I do do static uchikomi for warm-up during tournaments and for free practice (usually just an organized randori session with other competitors).

Hope that helps

To answer your original question, when I grew up, it was used all of the time... now much less frequently (especially in "with it" clubs)

[judogido]

For non-judoka: Uchikomi means "repeated practice". It is where you perform the entry to the throw, then return to the starting position without actually performing the throw. It is normally done many times in a row

You need to start with static uchikomi to develop a good base and smooth entry. However, static uchikomi alone is only part of the picture.

Judo is a dynamic sport. Rarely is your opponent going to stand still for you. You are going to be chasing him or avoiding him. So I think your uchikomi should reflect this.

You should include uchikomi moving forward, moving sideways and moving backwards. You should also do uchikomi in a circular movement. Finally you should also do some free moving uchikomi - or throw-for-throw stuff with no resistance from your partner. All of this will help to develop the timing needed for a good throw.

There are some problems I find when someone does too much static uchikomi. For a forward throw, I find that because tori is always performing the entry stepping in towards uke (tori=thrower, uke=person getting thrown) tori sometimes develops the tendency to lean backward - weight on the heels. During moving uchikomi they will then interrupt uke's forward movement and step in towards uke, rather than letting uke's forward momentum carry them onto tori's back.

This is then manifested in randori (sparring) by them simply falling backward trying to do a forward throw.

I also find that clubs do too much linear uchikomi - only doing static & backward-forward moving uchikomi. This develops linear thinking - you rely too much on your opponent moving in 2 directions.

Ideally, you want to do all sorts of uchikomi do develop the technique fully.

[Aesopian]

Thanks for the explanations, KDawg and judogido. They confirm many of the suspicions I had about the problems with overtraining static uchikomi.

[Cojofl]

I agree in general with what is being said in this thread. However I do find it useful if i want to a) isolate the upper body part of a throw and b) get a high repetition/time ratio.

[KDawg]

Originally Posted by Cojofl

I agree in general with what is being said in this thread. However I do find it useful if i want to a) isolate the upper body part of a throw and b) get a high repetition/time ratio.

This is true, and describes the problem with North American/European Judo (mine included, but I am consciously changing). I think because of the influence that wrestling has had on Judo over the last 30 years or so (especially in N.A./Eur) too much focus has been put on upper body strength. Judo's strength is supposed to originate at the core (abdominals/lower back/hips).

If you look at Japanese fighters, their strength is in their core/legs. I think some of us become too obsessed with the gripping/upper body domination in judo that we forget how important leg strength is.

Moving uchikomi (how it should be done when at an advanced level) involves some resistance, and the best way to beat the resistance is using your leg/core strength. Also, when training at high velocity, moving uchikomi can be done just as fast as static uchikomi with said benefits and a finish at the end (throw). Which, is another advantage of moving uchikomi, they allow you to complete throws more frequently; whereas, static uchikomi tend to train only tsukuri (entrance), and totally leave out the kuzushi and kake (off balancing and finishing) that are vital to good technique.

[Thalion]

The best way to do uchikomi ( the dynamic one is Joku soku geiko) is the 3 man Uchikomi.

One is Tori, one is Uke and one is sitting on the floor grabbing the uke's belt from the back with his feet on Uke heel.

In that Way Tori can Throw with All the power, even in otoshi and Uke will be lift from the mat but not Throw, so u can do A lot of fast attempt without lost time waiting uke while he is standing up.