[Scrazzymoto]

First off, you know how there are obvious similarities between, say, Shooto, BJJ, Judo, Catch-Wrestling, etc. in their submission techniques/grappling on the ground? Is there any kind of training similar to those in any Chinese Martial Arts? I know that every CMA has a chin-na component, but I 'm not quite sure if they actually train chin-na for ground fighting/submission wrestling.

I guess my main question is that does any CMA train in such a way that a practitioner of said art would be at least competent on the ground against someone who's studied one of the styles mentioned in the first sentence? I ask because chin-na (seize and control) is a major aspect of most CMAs (includes joint locks, chokes, pressure point manipulation), but I never see it demonstrated from a ground fighting position, such as the guard.

EDIT: I guess I should say all the chin-na techniques I've seen have been demonstrated almost exclusively from a standing position.

[George Brooks]

I've trained chin-na standing and on the ground in my Kung Fu training. It really depends on the mindset of your teachers.

[Evil Eye Gouger]

That's actually an interesting question. I'd be interested in knowing more.

AFAIK, Jujutsu did not develop from a Chinese style, like Karate and Kempo did. It could be that ground grappling (with submissions) was a Japanese (re-)invention.

[hayliks]

never seen ground submissions in any chinese tma...

[George Brooks]

Originally Posted by hayliks

never seen ground submissions in any chinese tma...

Look into some of the styles from Southern China and the revisions made in them over the years. Go into any decent Kung fu school in the U.S. and you'll see a heavy emphasis on full contact sparring and ground fighting.

[farmboy]

What about Shuai-Chiao...?

[hayliks]

Originally Posted by George Brooks

Look into some of the styles from Southern China and the revisions made in them over the years. Go into any decent Kung fu school in the U.S. and you'll see a heavy emphasis on full contact sparring and ground fighting.

hence "traditional", meaning without revisions... and still don't see any decend ground fighting techniques.

[Evil Eye Gouger]

Originally Posted by farmboy

What about Shuai-Chiao...?

In Shuai-Jiao, you win as soon as your opponent touches the ground with anything other than his feet.

It's basically a throwing art. AFAIK, no ground game.

[philong]

The Vietnamese styles of Kung Fu that I practice use grappling to some extent but only from a standing position. We also have a limited amount of throws available for use. Our emphasis was on killing our oponent if we were within grappling range or switching to knees / elbows. This was one of my major concerns with the systems, after 10 years or so of training I was real good at killing (or crippling) someone but I couldn't restrain them or "hurt them gently". Which is why I subsequently took up TKD, Hapkido, Judo & now Jujitsu.

[Evil Eye Gouger]

Originally Posted by philong

This was one of my major concerns with the systems, after 10 years or so of training I was real good at killing (or crippling) someone ....

How on Earth did you test this?