| Grappling Technique You don't know a heel hook from a toe hold, and that's why you need to come here. |
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03-28-2009, 07:45 AM
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#21 (permalink)
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 Green Belt
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grdstorm11
What the hell are you talking about?
Esai Maeda and Mitsuyo Maeda are the same person. Maeda who was a member of Jigoro Kano's Kodokan taught Carlos Gracie and his brothers. Carlos then taught his younger brother Helio (although Helio's story is that he watched for a long period of time and then miraculously became a JJ master out of thin air).
Carlson is Carlos's son, one of his elder children.
Moises is a black belt under a Carlson Gracie Black Belt. I believe somewhere they cite some influence from the Ono brothers.
There is no debate that there were other outside influences for BJJ such as Fadda, Oswaldo Alves, and that other judoka who's name escapes me (French Judoka from Rio that had Behring and Rickson Gracie as students once). However 95% of the BJJ in Brazil and 99% of the BJJ that is taught and proliferates around the world is because of the GRACIES.
No matter how you want to spin things, the majority of the art which is 99% all came from the Gracies (of course it is originally Judo/Jiu Jitsu blah blah blah).
Lotus Club is no different. They are the run of the mill small/mid size club like most others such as 99 (Telles), Barbosa JJ, Cia Paulista, Godoi, etc. They are all BJJ/GJJ from the gracies in some fashion or form.
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This guy?
Academia Mehdi Judô
Last edited by Big_One; 03-28-2009 at 07:56 AM.
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03-28-2009, 11:27 AM
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#22 (permalink)
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 Blue Belt
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Title Fight Productions
Im having trouble understanding what it is that i wrote that you disagree with? Maeda taught Carlson who taught his brothers who then tweaked it into Gracie JJ. What part of that are we in disagreement about? I am simply saying i was trying to figure out just exactly what the Lotus club was, if it was Gracie JJ or Brazilian JJ or Japanese JJ. I am of the understanding that Maeda was a descendant of the Lotus Clan of Samurai.
I guess the real question is what did Maeda do after he taught Carlson? Just stop studying the art, stop teaching? or did he (the master) the become a student of Carlson or his brothers (the students)? or did he continue to teach the art form that the Gracies later tweaked?
And you could have less of an attitude.  No one in here is arguing or being rude, just trying to figure stuff out and have a fun discussion about the lineage of JJ/Judo. |
I apologize if I am being rude however I really hate misinformation on the internet. It breeds stupid people who read this stuff and take it for actual knowledge/history.
Carlos NOT Carlson, Carlson is one of Carlos Sr.'s elder sons. Please read more carefully.
I have no idea where this idea of Maeda being of the "Lotus Clan" of samurai. He was a student of the Kodokan and one of the representatives sent out throughout the world to introduce Judo on an international level.
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Gracie Jiu Jitsu is synonymous. You can theorize all you want about hidden masters taught my Maeda however the Gracie's had a profound affect on "Brazilian Jiu Jitsu." Of course a long the way, some people with different backgrounds may had added their touch to the sport however 99% of the BJJ found out there came from the Gracies.
Lotus Club BJJ = Gracie Jiu Jitsu/Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
__________________
www.GrapplersGuide.com
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03-28-2009, 12:12 PM
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#23 (permalink)
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 Brown Belt
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 2,576
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Sounds pretty solid to me. If you like the people, the atmosphere, the technique being taught, and see it as a place you won't have to force yourself to go to then that is all that really matters.
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03-28-2009, 12:46 PM
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#24 (permalink)
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 Purple Belt
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocknroll1984
the one in queens? if so please do not train there. go into the city and train at alliance or shaolin's. i train with shaolin it's on 47th and 8th, it's by far the best bjj instruction i have ever received. i also hear great things about alliance.
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 QFT!!!!
__________________
"The Diaz brothers both gave one-fingered salutes toward the cage as they made their way back up the ramp, mixing in the "Westside" hand symbol in tribute to their hometown of Stockton, Calif."
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03-28-2009, 01:26 PM
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#25 (permalink)
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Promoter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Down from day 1
Posts: 16,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Jack
Carlos, not Carlson.
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Dooh!  
__________________
I fought for world titles in boxing, karate, I fought bar wars, street corners, most everything living and half the stuff dead,ain’t nobody bad, I know, I looked Quote Tex Cobb
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03-28-2009, 01:41 PM
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#26 (permalink)
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Promoter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Down from day 1
Posts: 16,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai Jack
Carlos, not Carlson.
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dbl.
__________________
I fought for world titles in boxing, karate, I fought bar wars, street corners, most everything living and half the stuff dead,ain’t nobody bad, I know, I looked Quote Tex Cobb
Last edited by Title Fight Productions; 03-28-2009 at 02:03 PM.
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03-28-2009, 02:02 PM
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#27 (permalink)
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Promoter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Down from day 1
Posts: 16,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grdstorm11
I apologize if I am being rude however I really hate misinformation on the internet. It breeds stupid people who read this stuff and take it for actual knowledge/history.
Carlos NOT Carlson, Carlson is one of Carlos Sr.'s elder sons. Please read more carefully.
I have no idea where this idea of Maeda being of the "Lotus Clan" of samurai. He was a student of the Kodokan and one of the representatives sent out throughout the world to introduce Judo on an international level.
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Gracie Jiu Jitsu is synonymous. You can theorize all you want about hidden masters taught my Maeda however the Gracie's had a profound affect on "Brazilian Jiu Jitsu." Of course a long the way, some people with different backgrounds may had added their touch to the sport however 99% of the BJJ found out there came from the Gracies.
Lotus Club BJJ = Gracie Jiu Jitsu/Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
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Yeah, i think you are just misunderstanding what im trying to get at or i am not explaining it well enough. I know Who Maeda was and who taught him. Im not saying in anyway shape or form that he was also taught my some mystic samuai. Im just theorising on where Lotus club BJJ came from. And i still don't think that Lotus BJJ has a lineage in GJJ. I may be wrong, but why is it such an offense to you to acknowledge that Gracie JJ isn't the only JJ in Brazil?
__________________
I fought for world titles in boxing, karate, I fought bar wars, street corners, most everything living and half the stuff dead,ain’t nobody bad, I know, I looked Quote Tex Cobb
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03-28-2009, 02:25 PM
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#28 (permalink)
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Blue Belt
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Title Fight Productions
Yeah, i think you are just misunderstanding what im trying to get at or i am not explaining it well enough. I know Who Maeda was and who taught him. Im not saying in anyway shape or form that he was also taught my some mystic samuai. Im just theorising on where Lotus club BJJ came from. And i still don't think that Lotus BJJ has a lineage in GJJ. I may be wrong, but why is it such an offense to you to acknowledge that Gracie JJ isn't the only JJ in Brazil?
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I completely understand your posts. I don't understand why you cannot comprehend what I am saying.
Lotus Club's founder, Moises Muradi is a black belt under a Carlson Black Belt. Carlson is Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Does that make sense?
I know first hand from training at a Lotus Club school. Is that proof enough?
A good friend of mine was a Mundial Champ at purple belt from Lotus Club.
How can you speculate about the lineage of Lotus Club when I am telling you flat out DIRECTLY from the source that Lotus Club BJJ = Gracie Jiu Jitsu??????
Gracie JJ is not the only JJ in Brazil however what we know as Brazilian Jiu Jitsu which is the IBJJF point system, IBJJF tournaments, Naga Gi tournaments, GQ Gi tournaments, the CBJJE (which is Moises's federation), the defunct CBJJO, US Open, and every major Gi tournament is directly from Brazilian Jiu Jitsu/GRACIE JIU JITSU.
BRAZILIAN JIU JITSU = GRACIE JIU JITSU.
And lets make no mistake, I am not at all pro-Gracie. I am giving credit where credit is due. Without the Gracies, there would be no Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. PERIOD.
__________________
www.GrapplersGuide.com
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03-28-2009, 02:47 PM
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#29 (permalink)
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 Yellow Belt
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 205
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what does the lineage have to do with him going to the school or not who cares if they have an affilation with the gracies or not, all that matters is if the school is good or not and the instructer/lever of jiu jitsu at the school. it sounds alright from what you said. thats about what most jiu jitsu classes consist of, a warm up some tecqunique, or drilling tequnique, sparring (usally longer than 3 minute rounds though), and stretching. i live in queens myself but have never visited that school. however, my friend that goes to henzo's who lives closer to that school went there and watched a class and watched them roll and he told me that they weren't that good, but i never went there myself. i personally go to nybjj on 34th in between 5th and 6th (1 block away from the empire state building) and i feel like we have a pretty high level of jiu jitsu there. come by and you can try a free class Welcome to NYBJJ.com | nybjj.com | New, York, Brazilian, Arts
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03-28-2009, 02:50 PM
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#30 (permalink)
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Promoter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Down from day 1
Posts: 16,580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grdstorm11
I completely understand your posts. I don't understand why you cannot comprehend what I am saying.
Lotus Club's founder, Moises Muradi is a black belt under a Carlson Black Belt. Carlson is Gracie Jiu Jitsu. Does that make sense?
I know first hand from training at a Lotus Club school. Is that proof enough?
A good friend of mine was a Mundial Champ at purple belt from Lotus Club.
How can you speculate about the lineage of Lotus Club when I am telling you flat out DIRECTLY from the source that Lotus Club BJJ = Gracie Jiu Jitsu??????
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Thanks for the info! This clears it up, why did you not just say this in the first place?
__________________
I fought for world titles in boxing, karate, I fought bar wars, street corners, most everything living and half the stuff dead,ain’t nobody bad, I know, I looked Quote Tex Cobb
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