tried lotus bjj nyc

[FinanceFrank]

thanks, but those places are, well, farther than the NYC places. A) I might not have a car, B) I'm looking to move close to a path station, so i'm a 10min ride in from Hobo to Penn Station. A place in NYC is definitely what i'm looking for

[Title Fight Productions]

Originally Posted by nmilford

It stands to reason other people at the time would have been doing similar things, but maybe the Gracie's were better marketers, if not better fighters... of course the winners write the history, right?

You would be correct.

The Gracie's were not the only ones doing Jiu-Jitsu in the world during the 1900's, and certainly not the only one's doing Jiu-Jitsu in Brazil, they were just the most popular. Early members of the Gracie family in Brazil were political figures and very involved in the community where they lived. Among Helio's first students were Governor of Rio, Carlos Lacerda, and President, Joao Figueiredo

Here is some more.

While in Brazil, I learned about a Grand Master named "Fadda," who learned Jiu-Jitsu from a man named Luis Franca. Like Carlos Gracie, Franca also learned Jiu-Jitsu (Judo) from Meada. Fadda took the Jiu-Jitsu he learned from Franca and started his own school of Jiu-Jitsu in Brazil. His popularity is not as great as the Gracie family, but nonetheless, he is an example of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu being refined and practiced outside the Gracie family. His students compete in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu tournaments and consider their art separate from both Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and the older styles of Jiu-Jitsu in Japan. This stands as evidence that Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is not the same thing.

[Title Fight Productions]

An interesting read!

Jiu-jitsu History

[Ranger]

http://www.mmafacts.com/main.cfm?act...s=MMA&adid=528

[Title Fight Productions]

I have been doing a little research and although its hazy, i believe that Esai Maeda the Judoka and Jiu-Jitsu champion that originally taught Carlson was from the Lotus Clan. And that this is the lineage of Lotus JJ.

If anyone else has some info on this it would be great.

[grdstorm11]

Originally Posted by Title Fight Productions

I have been doing a little research and although its hazy, i believe that Esai Maeda the Judoka and Jiu-Jitsu champion that originally taught Carlson was from the Lotus Clan. And that this is the lineage of Lotus JJ.

If anyone else has some info on this it would be great.

What the hell are you talking about?

Esai Maeda and Mitsuyo Maeda are the same person. Maeda who was a member of Jigoro Kano's Kodokan taught Carlos Gracie and his brothers. Carlos then taught his younger brother Helio (although Helio's story is that he watched for a long period of time and then miraculously became a JJ master out of thin air).

Carlson is Carlos's son, one of his elder children.

Moises is a black belt under a Carlson Gracie Black Belt. I believe somewhere they cite some influence from the Ono brothers.

There is no debate that there were other outside influences for BJJ such as Fadda, Oswaldo Alves, and that other judoka who's name escapes me (French Judoka from Rio that had Behring and Rickson Gracie as students once). However 95% of the BJJ in Brazil and 99% of the BJJ that is taught and proliferates around the world is because of the GRACIES.

No matter how you want to spin things, the majority of the art which is 99% all came from the Gracies (of course it is originally Judo/Jiu Jitsu blah blah blah).

Lotus Club is no different. They are the run of the mill small/mid size club like most others such as 99 (Telles), Barbosa JJ, Cia Paulista, Godoi, etc. They are all BJJ/GJJ from the gracies in some fashion or form.

[vicodin]

The Lotus students are pretty solid from what I've seen of them at tournies..FYI Eduardo Santos is a good friend of Cobrinha.

[Title Fight Productions]

Originally Posted by grdstorm11

What the hell are you talking about?

Esai Maeda and Mitsuyo Maeda are the same person. Maeda who was a member of Jigoro Kano's Kodokan taught Carlos Gracie and his brothers. Carlos then taught his younger brother Helio (although Helio's story is that he watched for a long period of time and then miraculously became a JJ master out of thin air).

Carlson is Carlos's son, one of his elder children.

Moises is a black belt under a Carlson Gracie Black Belt. I believe somewhere they cite some influence from the Ono brothers.

There is no debate that there were other outside influences for BJJ such as Fadda, Oswaldo Alves, and that other judoka who's name escapes me (French Judoka from Rio that had Behring and Rickson Gracie as students once). However 95% of the BJJ in Brazil and 99% of the BJJ that is taught and proliferates around the world is because of the GRACIES.

No matter how you want to spin things, the majority of the art which is 99% all came from the Gracies (of course it is originally Judo/Jiu Jitsu blah blah blah).

Lotus Club is no different. They are the run of the mill small/mid size club like most others such as 99 (Telles), Barbosa JJ, Cia Paulista, Godoi, etc. They are all BJJ/GJJ from the gracies in some fashion or form.

Im having trouble understanding what it is that i wrote that you disagree with? Maeda taught Carlson who taught his brothers who then tweaked it into Gracie JJ. What part of that are we in disagreement about? I am simply saying i was trying to figure out just exactly what the Lotus club was, if it was Gracie JJ or Brazilian JJ or Japanese JJ. I am of the understanding that Maeda was a descendant of the Lotus Clan of Samurai.

I guess the real question is what did Maeda do after he taught Carlson? Just stop studying the art, stop teaching? or did he (the master) the become a student of Carlson or his brothers (the students)? or did he continue to teach the art form that the Gracies later tweaked?

And you could have less of an attitude. No one in here is arguing or being rude, just trying to figure stuff out and have a fun discussion about the lineage of JJ/Judo.

[Samurai Jack]

Originally Posted by Title Fight Productions

Im having trouble understanding what it is that i wrote that you disagree with? Maeda taught Carlson who taught his brothers who then tweaked it into Gracie JJ.

Carlos, not Carlson.

[GZUS]

i had the opportunity to train with Raul Vieira a BB under moises. he is also the head instuctor of lotus now. he is a really good instructor and i am privileged to have him as a friend. lotus is a very family oriented club and has good atmosphere. i recommend training with thier club.