Are people who spaz harder to submit?

shankshanks · 03-06-2006, 10:34 AM

I'm a high blue who trains at a couple of places in LA. During an open mat session, a group of novices came in who thought they were supermen. I just stared at them and thought that I would submit them easily. I mean these guys were grabbing some kids and literally slamming them down HARD. When I asked them to roll, I was confident that it would be a fairly easy sparring session. However to my surprise, I struggled a little bit. I mean I knew these guys were new because they were literally clinging on to my rash guard as if it was a gi. Granted these guys were 20 - 25 pounds heavier than me, however I had more trouble tapping them out than I normally have with a medium blue, and even a low purple. I did submit them numerous of times, but you would think with all the training techniques you learn in BJJ would neutralize people who just go insane. Is it just me or do some of you guys have similar experiences?

anton · 03-06-2006, 11:06 AM

Good post. I think if a person is not used to that level of intensity/aggression/energy it kind of takes you out of your game for a minute. At least thats the way for me. But i have not had accesss to alot of black belt level instruction in my three years of BJJ. I know at my club when those of us roll who have experience its slower and more controlled because we are working technique. That kind of rolling has its place but i think you also have to go balls to the wall sometimes because for me its a different kind of energy. When noobs spaz out and use alot of energy initially it can be harder to tap them, but i find they also leave their arms out alot so you can catch them in transitions. I'll will be in mount and then will get reversed but the guy sticks his arms out so once i hit guard the armbar is right there.

just my thoughts.

anton

Alzi_ · 03-06-2006, 11:15 AM

Its always easier rolling with guys who've trained jiu-jitsu because you know what to expect. New guys can catch you off-guard because they are so unpredicatable especially if they are bigger than you and/or overly aggressive. One of the reasons I like to roll with new white belts is to practice applying my BJJ in a self-defense situation since newbies will react more like an untrained aggressor might in a streetfight than my sparring partner.

How quickly you tap someone isn't necessarily indicative of your jiu-jitsu skills. With noobs, especially people bigger than you, sometimes you have to play the waiting game and let them spaz out, let them tire themselves out and then move in for the kill. Even Royce back in the day didn't tap everyone out instantly...it took time to beat the likes of Severn and Kimo.

triso · 03-06-2006, 11:23 AM

Depends on the aggression level. If someone goes that hard with me, I have no problem going right back at them ... the difference is that I actually have technique to go along with aggression, so they are pretty much fucked.

QingTian · 03-06-2006, 11:31 AM

the problem with bjj is that sometimes is can get too laid back

**Zankou** · 03-06-2006, 11:32 AM

Of course spazzing helps, that's why people do it. Technique is better than spazzing, but if you don't have technique, spazzing can substitute to a degree. Spazzing + size + athleticism can substitute to a BIG degree.

People are down on spazzing in BJJ, but IMO the primary drawbacks are that spazzing out wastes far too much energy and creates much too high a risk of injury. It's not really that ineffective, it's just that it's unworkable to roll with that approach over time.

deadlyshaolin · 03-06-2006, 11:48 AM

This might sound off, but I am not joking. A little bit of natural talent and a crapload of spazzing out will win you a lot of fights, whether it be striking, wrestling, or BJJ. Particularly at the lower levels, but even some skilled veterans may have problems with this type of opponent.

shankshanks · 03-06-2006, 12:03 PM

Well I'm glad I'm not the only one who's experienced this type of issue. Usually when I roll I only concentrate on technique. I try to use as little energy as possible. However in order to win tournaments you gotta up the aggression level. I feel a little bit better now knowing I'm not the only one. I thought that my skill level was decreasing.

Jason Horak · 03-06-2006, 12:13 PM

untrained people move in ways that you cant anticipate... so they will pose difficulties unlike a white belt or a beginner who will be beginning to move with more or less correct technique. let them spaz and tire a bit and go in for the kill.

then be a nice guy and show them where they went wrong--and then start again

anton · 03-06-2006, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QingTian

the problem with bjj is that sometimes is can get too laid back

I very much agree with this. As a laid back person in general, i am still working on being more athletic and physically imposing my will on someone else.