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Nowadays Judo is starting to surpass BJJ, and more MMA fighters are favouring Judo
This is not a 'Judo vs BJJ' thread. After all, we know that the founder of BJJ is the Judoka Mitsyo Maeda, who taught the Gracies's Judo. BJJ is a branch of Judo, done in a judo suit, with a speciality in Judo groundfighting.
That said, I just would like to make an observation I have noticed over the last few years. No doubt that Judo let the ground emphasis slide over the years, especially when they focused on 'olympic style' which leaves lttle time on the ground. However, they always trained groundfighting, if not putting the same emphasis on it that BJJ does. There has been a resurgence in Judo groundfighting in recent years, with many Judoka now training more in submissions, and sometimes even a BJJ instructor working in tandem at a Judo school to sharpen up submissions, which are all afterall originally Judo submissions. The reverse also happens whre BJJers like to learn the standing grappling and throwing skills lost in their lineage by bringing in a Judo expert.
That said, I think the changes benefit the Judo practioners much more. There was a wisdom in the Old shotokan Judokas that was beyond their pupils including their distant pupils like the Gracies (yes, all BJJ practioners can trace the transmission of their techniques directly through Jigoro Kano, founder of Judo or as it was also known in Japan 'Kano Jiu Jitsu)'.
It takes a LOT of skill and traiing to master throws, balance and getting the top position that you train in Judo. In comparison, learning to sharpen up subs is easier. I am not saying that a Judoka can get up to the level on the ground of a blackbelt Bjjers in just a year or two, but it doesn't take long to get a feel for the differences, after all it is going over familiar territory. In particaular, it doesn't take much for most Judo guys to learn good sub defence against a top BJJer, much easier than a BJJer to learn defecne against Judo throws and takedowns. It seems BJJers do not really train throws at all.
I have 6 years Judo experience, and have now been sharpening up my sub game with a bit of BJJ and submission wrestling. I have no problem at all with BJJ guys who have only ever done BJJ, even to a very high level. This is because It is possible to usually always get the takedown/throw and top position, and if things get a little messy on the ground, I can stand up. This pretty much neutralizes even the best BJJer. Unless he is also trained in wrestling then he is good at takedowns. But against a pure BJJer, if the above strategy is used Judo generally is very dominant. The BJJers just cannot take the fight to the ground, and when he is on his back, he Judoka can easily standup. Especially if they spar on a wooden floor (traditional canvas style, wooden floor covered with a sheet)...a good throw is very effective. I can see why they emphazized throws in Japan. Soft mats are just not realistic and take away the true power of the Judo throw.
For my own training, I intend to train more at a BJJ or sub wrestling school when I can get to one regularly so that I do not have to use so much a strategy of having to get top position all the time. But from my experience, pure Judo works against pure BJJ very well, if you use the correct strategy and make them fight your game i.e throwing them on their backs and getting on top, and standing up if necessary. Works even more realistically and better for Judo on wooden floor sparring.
It works like this:
Position - before - submisson.
Throw - before - position - before - submisiion.
Obvious, but again shocking that Bjj never really focussed on getting throws and good takedowns to get good position. Maybe becasue they originally fought aginst boxers and Karate fighters in Brazil with no takwdown defence?
So all in all, train both if you can, but nowadays, Judo with a bit of BJJ is generally superior to BJJ with a bit of Judo. I will not be surprised if we see more Judo fighter entering mma and replacing the influx of BJJ more. Most good Judokas who have sharpened up on sub skills thorugh sub wretling or BJJ have no problem sparing BJJers, especially if they want to play 'traditional style' on canvas. BJJ is now learning the importance of the throw even if it took about 70 odd years. Judo is the more complete system, and this has come to light more as mma has progressed. But Judo can be grateful to the BJJ which is essentially Judo groundfighting specialists.
Last edited by Utopia : 10-12-2007 at 06:51 PM.
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also you picked the worst time to post a thread like this, no one's gonna notice it. Was a good read though!
