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Old 06-08-2006, 03:15 PM   #1 (permalink)

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Icon2 Lower Back pain?

Grappler's,

I'm having some lower back pain.I 1st had it 3-4 yrs ago lifting something heavy the wrong way. I never saw a doctor etc, just been careful since.

Recently i started taking BJJ, and for the 1st few weeks eveything was fine, since i was on my back learning guard, but now we're learning some takedowns etc. and i seem to have upset my lower back again. Just standing in the "horse" stance for a sweep/takedown, standing there alone i have some discomfort, but when i do the sweep its even worse.Now this past week i was sick in bed for 3 days and just sitting in a chair or laying in bed it bothers me.

My question is,
#1 if i go to a doctor, will an X-ray or mri show a herniated disk or other semi-minor injury?
#2 Are there any low impact drills/excersise's that i can do to re-hab/strengthen my lower back
#3 anything i can do to try and diagnose the problem myself

Thanks Guys
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Old 06-08-2006, 03:29 PM   #2 (permalink)

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have a doctor check it.
It might be a back strain.
Rest it for 1-2 weeks. Then start stretching it before/after a workout.
Google back strain or sprain and see if it sounds like you.

I had a lower back strain after I got stacked hard in bjj.
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Old 06-08-2006, 03:34 PM   #3 (permalink)

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Go to a sports doctor and find out what's going on, then maybe do a few weeks of PT. If something definitely is wrong, then no amount of anything will fix it. If you just need some PT, your knowledge will not even begin to approach what a skilled therapist can help you do.

I was in the same boat as you, just with my shoulder. Hurt it, then didn't use it for a few years, and it got better. Reinjured it again, but this time I got smart and went to a good doc who sent me to a great therapist who is really helping. I'm going to be able to get back into BJJ soon.

In short, get to a doctor. Why waste your time doing things that don't work, and prolonging whatever it is that ails you? Get yourself some answers, in the long run it's well worth it.
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Old 06-08-2006, 04:24 PM   #4 (permalink)

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Hi there

I'm going to repost two mini-articles that were tips of the week on the Grapplearts.com newsletter earlier this year: hopefully something helps:

Don't Take Injuries Lying Down

I have met many people, both on and off the mats, who seem to take their injuries with resignation. They say things like: "I just have bad shoulders", or "I'm going to have to live with this bad back for the rest of my life", and are content to live a less rich life. My reaction to injuries has always been to try to educate myself, and then to tackle them head-on.

To illustrate, let me talk about my lower back. I first injured my lower back getting thrown onto a wooden floor back in my Kajukenbo Karate days. I then further aggravated it by getting into high-level whitewater canoeing, where you are exerting a tremendous amount of unilateral twisting strain on your spine and torso. It got so bad that, when I was doing Judo, even with proper breakfalling it only took 3 or 4 times getting thrown onto my back for my lumbar spine to sieze up completely.

Most of the time I just experienced a dull discomfort in my left lower back, but when it flared up (after a Judo class, or weightlifting with bad form) it was really, really BAD! The worst time it was so bad that I was trapped on the floor of my study for almost 24 hours because I simply couldn't walk, crawl, or be dragged to my bedroom.

All this time I was actively pursuing various treatments and therapies. Over a period of about 1o years I tried doing the following things to cure my back problems:

1. stopping Judo and concentrated almost 100% on groundfighting
2. switching from whitewater canoeing to whitewater kayaking
3. consulting 'Western medicine' (i.e. family doctors,visits to the ER, back specialists, etc.)
4. going to physiotherapy, developed and used my own routine
5. using anti-inflammatories (3 or 4 different types)
6. trying herbal and vitamin treatment
7. applying Chinese tinctures and ointments
8. doing Yoga
9. acupuncture (from at least 3 different practitioners)
10. having frequent professional massages (from at least 4 different massage therapists)
11. trying deep tissue massage / Rolfing
12. taking hot baths and jacuzzis
13. applying ice packs and cryotherapy
14. consulting a pelvic malalingment expert
15. going to 'normal' chiropractic therapy (from at least 6 different chiropractors)
16. trying 'no-touch' chiropractic therapy
17. buying and using several traction and inversion devices
18. having cranial-sacral therapy

Various experts (and 'experts') diagnosed the problem as being herniated disk(s), rotated disks, facet syndrome, misalinged pelvic bones, excessive scar tissue, tight muscles, loose ligaments, torn ligaments, cervical problems creating low back pain, lumbar problems creating cervical misalingments, etc. etc. etc. Naturally there tended to be a correlation between the diagnosis of a given expert, and the services they offered; very few diagnosed me with something that they could cure with their services!

As you can see I tried about everything except short of putting a pyramid under my bed and having surgery! Now this was time-intensive and finacially-expensive process, and I was very fortunate that many of these treatments were partially or fully covered by a combination of the public health plan (I live in Canada) and my health plan through work. I realize that unemployed (or underemployed) people will have difficulty pursuing as many treatment options as I did, BUT some of these options are low cost or no cost.

My point isn't to talk specifically about back injuries and treatments per se, but rather to illustrate the lengths I went to in order to live a healthy and energetic life. My bad back cut into my training, my family time and my general enjoyment of life, and I wasn't about to accept it as part of the definition of who I am.

Next week I'll talk about some of the treatments that actually helped me make progress with my back problems.

Stephan Kesting
www.grapplearts.com
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Old 06-08-2006, 04:25 PM   #5 (permalink)

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Fixing Bad Backs

Last week I listed the treatments used, and practitioners consulted, in my quest for a pain-free lower back. What I want to highlight this week are the actual treatments that made a difference.

I mention that there were a lot of treatments I tried that work well for other people but didn’t work for me. For example acupuncture, although it has helped several people that I know, has never worked for me. Does that mean that you shouldn’t try acupuncture? Of course not! It didn’t help me, but it might be exactly what your aching back needs.

Not getting thrown (as often): as I hinted last week, I eventually figured out that Judo was bad for my back. Every time I got thrown in Judo my lower back pain increased. Unfortunately it is very difficult to improve in Judo if you aren’t willing to be thrown, so I made the difficult decision to stop doing Judo and concentrate almost entirely on groundfighting.

As a side note, I found that most freestyle wrestling takedowns didn’t irritate my back nearly as much, so now when I do train standup my takedowns look like a weird hybrid of Judo and wrestling.

Ice and anti-inflammatories: Whenever my back got really bad I headed for the freezer first and then the medicine cabinet. The underlying reasoning was the same for both destinations: I wanted to reduce the inflammation. Many people use icepacks when they have a sore arm or leg, but using cold on the back is less common for some reason. The ice reduces inflammation, and thus the pain.

Conversely, while a hot bath or Jacuzzi feels nice when my back was just a little bit sore, I avoided it when it was really bad, because the last thing I wanted was more swelling and inflammation in the afflicted area.

Over the counter and prescription anti-inflammatories can also be very useful, especially if you take them right after injuring your back. I found that one or two days of antiflammatory treatment early in the injury probably cut a week off my recovery time. You don’t want to take them regularly or too often, however, because of potential kidney and/or liver damage!

Chiropractic and massage: I found that chiropractors and massage therapists were useful resources in managing back pain. They weren’t as useful when I was in extreme pain, but they could often provide me with some measure of relief when my back was moderately painful. This relief was never permanent, but it was relief nonetheless. I still use both today.

Stretching and Yoga: Many people have sore backs because their hamstrings and lower back muscles are chronically tight. These people often find that increasing their lower back and leg flexibility helps with back pain. By contrast I have always had a relatively flexible lower back and hamstrings, so many of the ‘classic’ stretches for lower back pain didn’t help me at all.

What I did find useful, however, were the backward bending stretches in Yoga, such as the ‘Cobra’ and ‘Upward Dog’ position. One doctor told me that this backward bending helped me because I had a posterior disk herniation, and these stretches were easing the bulging disk back into place. I’m not sure if his diagnosis and proposed mechanism were correct, but these stretches and postures did seem to help at certain times in my recovery.

It is important to realize that if you think that you might have torn or strained a muscle or ligament in your back DO NOT STRETCH IT RIGHT AWAY!! You have damaged something in your back and the tightness is your body’s way of protecting itself. If you stretch it (and potentially strain those same tissues further) your body will react with increased spasm and pain, making the situation much worse. Wait a week or two before beginning to stretch the sprained area; I speak from painful first hand experience here!

Another factor that may have helped were the many Yoga postures which strengthened the core and spinal erectors (see the next point).

Strengthening: Through trial and error I found that if I did back extensions (also known as ‘back hyperextensions’) once or twice a week that my back was much less likely to go into spasm and ‘lock up’. This is probably because it helped stabilize an unstable area of my body.

Nowadays I normally conclude every gym session with about 30 bodyweight repetitions of this exercise, or a lesser number while holding dumbbells with my hands cocked at my shoulders.

You can see a detailed description of this exercise here: www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/back.extension.html, and here: http://www.global-fitness.com/exerci...ercise033.html, as well as in the bonus section of my Dynamic Kneebars DVD (www.grapplearts.com/Kneebar-Info.htm). Back extensions are a great injury prevention exercise, as well as a very functional grappling exercise (which is why it made it into my video in the first place).

Pelvic Alignment: My most recent progress has to do with ensuring that my pelvis is correctly aligned, and not rotated, tilted or flared. I have used a book (The Malalignment Syndrome), as well as workshops and sessions with the author (Dr. Schamberger) to learn how to self diagnose and correct the most common pelvic misalignments myself. I am currently doing this twice a day, and it has made a significant difference to my back. You can find out more at www.malalignmentsyndrome.com (and no, I’m not collecting any sort of royalties or fees from them).

I should probably warn you that although the book IS very good, it is not an easy read and is actually quite a technical document. A background in physiotherapy, massage, anatomy or a related field would definitely help understanding the mechanisms, diagnostic techniques and treatments therein.

In closing, if you suffer from low back pain I wish you good luck in your search for relief. If you’ve never had a bad back then feel free to send the permanent link of this tip (www.grapplearts.com/2006/03/fixing-bad-backs.htm) to someone who might benefit from them.

Stephan Kesting
www.grapplearts.com
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Old 06-08-2006, 05:22 PM   #6 (permalink)

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#1 if i go to a doctor, will an X-ray or mri show a herniated disk or other semi-minor injury?
X-rays show nothing usually. I've never bothered with MRI, they are so expensive.

#2 Are there any low impact drills/excersise's that i can do to re-hab/strengthen my lower back
http://www.back.com/articles-exercises.html
this site gives you most of exercises you can get from physiotherapists.

#3 anything i can do to try and diagnose the problem myself
no. don't do this. you will probably just end up aggravate it even worse.

I've had chronic back pain for about 5 years or so. seeing doctors, physiotherapists, chiropracters, didn't help much to be honest. The best thing you can do is rest, and see if your back gets any better, then start exercising slowly and increase the intensity.
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Old 06-08-2006, 05:26 PM   #7 (permalink)

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Thank you very much Stephan, I missed them on your site. I've saved them to my hard disk, and I've also subscibed to the Grappling Tips newslatter.

For you guys wanting to read the HTML version of the Stephan's articles:

Last edited by Luther : 06-08-2006 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 06-09-2006, 11:28 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Chiropractor adn 800 mg of ibuprofen and lots of water. You probably have a degenerative disc. I have one and after I do alot of takedowns my back kills for a wee. I don't focus on them too much now, I know I can td and td defend. Save it for tournament. I usually start from knees now. Of course I am old.
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Old 06-09-2006, 11:41 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Personally I've had a lot less back trouble since I made sure to do superman back extensions every time I do situps.
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Last edited by Cojofl : 06-09-2006 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 06-09-2006, 01:57 PM   #10 (permalink)

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Thanks to everyone for all the reply's
Seems there is no clear answer/solution except for go see a doc. Me being stupid, i dont really want to do that, since i've had a few bad experiences with doc's in general, which is actually what lead to trying BJJ.

Initially my PCP moved so i had to find a new one, so i then had to go for a physical with the new guy, and he was gadget happy, i felt fine etc,( didnt mention the back since it wasn't bothering me @ the time) he gave me a test where i breathed deeply into a flow meter, which measure the volume+velocity of my lung capacity. I did have some shortness of breath after climbing 3-4 flights of stairs. So he really read into that since i am a new patient.

The new PCP, said he'd like me to get another more accurate test, from a specialist. An EKG,MRI, and stress test later they find nothing, so the specialist's next advice was to do a different stress test. At that point i'd missed 4-5 days of work dealing with the various visits, not to mention the co-pays @ each visit, so litterally approaching 1k$ lost/invested. Instead of going for another stress test, i went to the local BJJ school, and discovered me being out of shape was more odvious than any lung problem, its been over 2 months and after running/rolling etc i am no more out of breath than any other 2 month BBJ'er.

The big concern i have is i am a tradesman, and 26yrs old, and i'm going to need this back for another 30 yrs, this being the case should i cut my BJJ career before its too late, i havent been in a week since i was sick, even though i'm not good @ BJJ, i hate to quit anything.
Any advice??

*edit, i have some ibuprofen 800's from another injury 2-3 yrs ago, do they go bad, or i can still safely take them?

Thanks Again
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