Kneebar from turtle

Frodo · 03-07-2007, 08:18 PM

I'd like some help with my details on this leg lock. It is a sneaky kneebar from when you are turtled. <ol><li>You just turtled, either from a failed takedown or to prevent a pass. Uke is behind you trying to gain control, rather than at the side.</li><li>Look under your legs. If you see his leg or knee between your legs, then you can go for the kneebar. If it isn't, you can sometimes reposition yourself first so your leg is between his legs.</li><li>Dive under for it. You want to dive like doing a forward roll, so make sure to move your head out of the way. Stay close and shoot your legs through his legs as you roll. Try to roll in place without much Cartesian displacement.</li><li>Shoot both arms deep behind his knee as you roll too. Keep your hips close to his and try to prevent him from tying his legs up in a figure-4.</li><li> You should end up roughly perpendicular with him with your side on the ground. Now is the time to execute the <a href="http://frodojj.blogspot.com/2006/05/kneebar.html">Kneebar</a></li></ol> Any suggestions or tips?

Frodo · 03-07-2007, 08:30 PM

P.S. What's the leg-lock position called, anyway? You know, the position where you can do ankle locks, toe holds, knee bars, heel hooks, etc? I know there are many variations of it, but they are all the basic thing. Is it called anything besides "leg lock position" or "leg control position"?

Sambo234 · 03-07-2007, 09:12 PM

in my experience, knee bar from turtle is a very much momentum dependent move. the more powerful roll I have the more the success I have finishing it.

**Fozzy** · 03-07-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sambo234

in my experience, knee bar from turtle is a very much momentum dependent move. the more powerful roll I have the more the success I have finishing it.

pretty much. if you are gassed and try to do it without momentum they usually see it coming and or will just reposition on you.

~Foz

Vold · 03-07-2007, 09:37 PM

i tried to do this after seeing that little kid do it in that video

Frodo · 03-07-2007, 09:44 PM

Great tips. Which video?

Sambo234 · 03-07-2007, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frodo

Great tips. Which video?

i think hes talking about that kid drake dudley doing a rolling knee bar... not a really informative video.

also, usually when you first grab the leg, chances are you are gripping the back of the knee joint. when you roll and extend the leg somewhat, make an effort to change your grip as much as you can so you can make sure the leg remains extended. You could even grab towards the top of the calf before fully adjusting to grabbing at the ankle and finishing the sub.

**Zankou** · 03-07-2007, 10:05 PM

This move rocks. I am a kneebar addict, and I love playing from turtle. Here are some tips:

Number one tip for success: Your free leg must kick behind his armpit HARD. You do not want to end up on your side, and you do not want to need "momentum" to finish it. Knock his ass forward with the leg in the armpit.

Head in/out is a matter of choice. The majority opinion is to keep your head out (Kesting and my teacher for example). However Michael Jen's view is to keep the head in, like a rolling kneebar from standing. IMHO, both have advantages. Head out, you can kick the armpit and roll easier. Head in, however, there is a "sideways" sweep you can do. I think it's okay either way.

To goad them into this move, a tip I picked up from Kesting is to crawl forward, then lunge back and trap as they follow you.

You don't need to grab the knee with both arms. It's just like a regular kneebar -- you just need one arm threaded behind the knee. The other arm tries to extend the leg or, alternatively, calf-crush/kneebar him. If your head is inside, the other arm will be working a sweep, and off-balancing him. Basically he will be torn between the sweep and the kneebar.

Honestly much of the time I don't even bother grabbing the knee until I'm in midsweep. At that point, the guy is being knocked forward, and he won't be doing much of anything except trying to base out. It's like the omoplata, you don't actually need to control the arm if your leg is in deep.

Finally, my favorite way of getting it is from butterfly guard. I turn away, over onto my stomach, and roll into it. The butterfly hook becomes the turtle hook. I hit this all the time, it's delightful. Try it. Similarly, you can transition easily back to butterfly by spinning around and popping your other hook in, a la Telles. Having read Aesopian's stuff about the omoplata from butterfly guard, moreover, I plan to be doing a lot more of this type of move (the mechanics are somewhat similar --- turn away as you hook and spin out).

FistInFace · 03-07-2007, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zankou

This move rocks. I am a kneebar addict, and I love playing from turtle. Here are some tips:

Number one tip for success: Your free leg must kick behind his armpit HARD. You do not want to end up on your side, and you do not want to need "momentum" to finish it. Knock his ass forward with the leg in the armpit.

Head in/out is a matter of choice. The majority opinion is to keep your head out (Kesting and my teacher for example). However Michael Jen's view is to keep the head in, like a rolling kneebar from standing. IMHO, both have advantages. Head out, you can kick the armpit and roll easier. Head in, however, there is a "sideways" sweep you can do. I think it's okay either way.

To goad them into this move, a tip I picked up from Kesting is to crawl forward, then lunge back and trap as they follow you.

You don't need to grab the knee with both arms. It's just like a regular kneebar -- you just need one arm threaded behind the knee. The other arm tries to extend the leg or, alternatively, calf-crush/kneebar him.

Finally, my favorite way of getting it is from butterfly guard. I turn away, over onto my stomach, and roll into it. The butterfly hook becomes the turtle hook. I hit this all the time, it's delightful. Try it. Similarly, you can transition easily back to butterfly by spinning around and popping your other hook in, a la Telles.

Butterfly guard, yes!!!!!! I can picture what you're talking about and since lately I've been really trying to improve the way I perform with butterflys I'll give this a shot.

mmacheesedhead · 03-08-2007, 07:01 AM

Thanks for this, I haven't tried the kneebar yet, I usually use the turtle to get a single leg or double leg. Sometimes, if they set up right, I can get the back from turtl;e