Kimura - how to minimize the risk of injury

Oldguy · 11-07-2009, 10:05 AM

For some reason, I seem to get the kimura a lot in sparring. About 3 years ago, I was grappling and had the kimura against a blue belt. I was increasing the technique. He was fighting it and not tapping. Then, all of a sudden, we hear a "POP". He was injured. I did not jerk the move. But, I should have done it a little slower. I felt so bad, I almost quit Jiu Jitsu. He should have tapped. But, I blame myself because it is my responsibility not to hurt my partner.

I found a way to keep this from happening. Now, the minute I apply the kimura, I start talking. "Tell me when it hurts". If they don't respond, I slowly increase the pressure and ask again "tell me when it hurts". I rarely have to ask more than twice. Plus, talking makes me do the technique slower. Apply, ask, pause and wait for reaction.

It works. I have not had an injury on a partner since. Psychologically, asking the question makes people tap sooner because it reminds them that they could soon be feeling pain. It kind of wakes them up to the fact pain is coming.

onepointeighty · 11-07-2009, 10:32 AM

thats a good idea, some new guys have an ego and talking to them may make it less of a battle and make them realize your working together

tapiahome · 11-07-2009, 10:37 AM

Just don't kumura'd ie don't leave your limbs hanging out for people to break/rupture/tear.

Once you're there it's lights out.

tapiahome · 11-07-2009, 10:38 AM

oh, sorry, didn't read your post.

excellent idea to ask. i do it if i'm rolling with a loved one.

MMA_Outsider · 11-07-2009, 11:15 AM

I personally don't understand when people won't tap. When in practice, if someone gets me I'm not going to risk being injured. To me it's stupid. Like not tapping when someone puts you in a choke then passing out.... because that's so much cooler than tapping. (happened to me when I was rolling with a guy who took training to serious i guess)

MickCollins · 11-07-2009, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMA_Outsider

I personally don't understand when people won't tap.

When I first started, and im still newbie, I wanted to see how far things had to be pushed before I had to tap and if I could escape from some stuff if I had to. A couple blue belts told me that I was being dumb not tapping and I probably was but it was kind of a curiosity thing. Now, I tap when I get caught because me being dumb or the other person being very good is what gets me.

megatonjits · 11-07-2009, 12:21 PM

how to minimize injury is simply TAP TAP TAP I hear you can do it all kinds of ways to such as snap your fingers, tap the mat, tap the person, tap the ground with your foot I even hear screaming is suffient enough for a tap. So why are you guys getting injured, sound to me instead of training you guys are trying to see who can disable who first.

Oldguy · 11-07-2009, 01:00 PM

My comments aren't for the guys on the receiving end of the kimura (noob whitebelt who thinks he can muscle out of armbars). My comments are for those of us on the giving end ... the guys who have to deal with these guys that won't tap. The issue is how to keep yourself from hurting someone too dumb or stubborn to tap.

Even if it is the other guys fault for not tapping, you will still feel bad when their arm pops.

RJ Green · 11-07-2009, 04:15 PM

nothing makes me more angry than someone who doesn't tap to a locked submission because it isn't hurting, kimura or otherwise.

example: i'll hit normal jujigatame a lot, extend it out, and lay there waiting for a tap while the dipshit stays stuck with both shoulders on the mat and his arm out straight.

then we have this conversation:
"are you gonna tap?"
"well i don't think you have it?"
"yeah? why's that?"
"it doesn't hurt yet."
"it's too late when it hurts tough guy."
"but i can still get out of..."
"...no, no you can't. i'm going to break your arm if you don't tap."
"i don't think youaaaAAAAAAAAAAH TAP TAP TAP TAP!"

i shouldn't have to snap someone's arm to get them to sub, but so many people that roll are tough guys.

i'll still let go of an arm in practice against a lower belt, especially if i can just jump to a choke and teach them a lesson.

but yeah, in a tournament, a lot of people will try to tough out a submission. i've even had people lie about tapping...i don't get it...when you have to lie not to lose...

at the end of the day, if you're in a bad spot, and someone's cranking on your arm, if it's their job to submit you with control it's your fucking job to tap on time. if you don't tap on time, your arm is going to be broken. that's the point. don't rely on me being a nice guy and concerned with your well-being on keeping your elbow intact, that's extremely disrespectful, unsportsmanlike, and most importantly a bitch move.

mikey diablo · 11-07-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJ Green

nothing makes me more angry than someone who doesn't tap to a locked submission because it isn't hurting, kimura or otherwise.

example: i'll hit normal jujigatame a lot, extend it out, and lay there waiting for a tap while the dipshit stays stuck with both shoulders on the mat and his arm out straight.

then we have this conversation:
"are you gonna tap?"
"well i don't think you have it?"
"yeah? why's that?"
"it doesn't hurt yet."
"it's too late when it hurts tough guy."
"but i can still get out of..."
"...no, no you can't. i'm going to break your arm if you don't tap."
"i don't think youaaaAAAAAAAAAAH TAP TAP TAP TAP!"

i shouldn't have to snap someone's arm to get them to sub, but so many people that roll are tough guys.

i'll still let go of an arm in practice against a lower belt, especially if i can just jump to a choke and teach them a lesson.

but yeah, in a tournament, a lot of people will try to tough out a submission. i've even had people lie about tapping...i don't get it...when you have to lie not to lose...

at the end of the day, if you're in a bad spot, and someone's cranking on your arm, if it's their job to submit you with control it's your fucking job to tap on time. if you don't tap on time, your arm is going to be broken. that's the point. don't rely on me being a nice guy and concerned with your well-being on keeping your elbow intact, that's extremely disrespectful, unsportsmanlike, and most importantly a bitch move.

I had a friend ask me if the guy hadn't tapped in the one tournament what I would have done. I said simply, "Break his arm or tear his shoulder. We paid for the this tournament, and he knows what he signed up to do." Anyone who doesn't tap in a tournament to a locked in submission deserves what they get.

Practice sessions are very very different.