Judo Guys: What Is Your Mindset During Randori?

[Balto]

I was hoping you judo guys could help me out a little on this one.

Basically, I'm a BJJ guy that trains with judo guys a lot. I always teach throws at my BJJ classes, and I think I have pretty decent throwing technique. When I am demonstrating with someone or just doing uchikomi/nagekomi, I have no real problem at all throwing my opponent.

The thing that trips me up in randori is that I'm only going for one throw at a time. I'm telegraphing my attack and even though it's not terrible technically, they see it coming and are able to defend.

When I match up against a higher level judo competitor, I can do okay and get a lot of minor scores, but I rarely ever get a nice ippon toss. Mainly because people see my big throws coming so I can't hit them.

So what I want to know from you guys is, what is going through your mind when you put together those slick combinations you always hit me with?

Do you just tell yourself "I am doing ouchi gari to uchi mata, no matter what" and just do that 100%?

Do you just kind of flow, but always follow up a certain technique with another one, e.g. every time you naturally do an ouchi gari, follow with uchi mata?

Or is it really just a completely natural flow from technique to technique that isn't preplanned at all? I kind of hope it's not that one because if that's the case it's going to be a while until I can get to that level.

Let me know guys. I'm just a BJJ guy who appreciates your throwing techniques and is working hard on getting there.

[codemonkey76]

i am keen to hear some replys to this as well, good thread balto... waiting patiently for the judo guys...

[mr. tadashi]

For me, it is to work on by movement and keeping loose so I have better flow. Aside from that a lot of the time I may put some focus into some foot sweeps but typically I tend to try doing combinations of a foot technique to open the person up for a big throw and avoid getting thrown by using quick moment rather than just trying to block it and see if there is a chance for pulling a counter throw. And on the other hand I try not to worry about getting countered since it can cause me to hesitate when it comes to committing to a throw.

[XeroJaeger]

I don't mean to throw in with something non-judo oriented, but we randori in aikido as well. I would think with multi-opponent combat the mindset is generally the same. For me, what I try to do is think past the first threat. Sounds weird, maybe, but we all know that after doing endless drilling and practice, your body learns how to react. I've found that if I try to think past the first contact and stay one step ahead of myself, I react with a lot more fluidity. Instead of thinking "alright, I can irimi into such and such technique," I let myself assume that I will counter the first attack and start deciding what I'm going to do with the person once I have them. It makes for better decision making. Just my tangent two cents.

[PhxJudoJujitsu]

For me at least it's like a chess match or boxing match. I'll attempt a minor throw and see how they defend and what they do. I then use that to my advantage to try and set up what I want. So if I want to say Osoto Gari, I'll set up with throws that force to step back to avoid, then eventually i'll do the reap as he's moving in that direction.

[Hammer Time]

u take what u can get. i guess i dont know shit compared to soild judo bb who throw guys like theres no tommorow but its like the ground u flow with the go with a lil something in mind. some guys can get their combos to work everytime though and they dont count. us normal guys will uchi mata if u lean forward, and osoto if u lean back. some guys can ippon seio no matter what your doing.

[killakoy]

What I focus on is keeping my kuzushi good while trying to get my opponents kuzushi broken. To do this I usually have a few foot sweep/reap combos I like to throw out there or just things as simple as getting an opponent to commit to a push or pull. Once that's done there's a variety of throws I'll hit depending on where I am and where he is. If I don't get it (or feel right) I change it to something minor like a foot sweep to keep him off-balance. I tend not to trust my eyes cuz it misleading... feeling is so much more effective.

[Darkslide632]

Well, a lot of the time I don't remember what throw I used. When I won the state championships, I was talking to a guy after our match, specifically about the armbar I won with, and we were kind of laughing about it. Then I was like "Wait a sec, how did we get to the ground in the first place?". He couldn't remember right off and I didn't at all. My sensei told me I had thrown him with tomoe nage and rolled over into mount.

Doing randori isn't a whole lot different than flowing on the ground except I think I find myself less aware of what is happening on my feet a lot, and that I throw on instinct, whereas on the ground I consciously set my subs and position up.

It sounds to me that you're kind of at an in-between stage. You know the throws but have difficulty putting them together without conscious thought yet. Much like the beginner grappler who knows juji gatame, knows sankaku jime and know sankaku garami but can't flow from one to the other and back. Randori is the time to practice those things though. So find some combinations that work for you and start practicing them that way. When you are doing uchikomi, don't just do osoto garai uchikomi - do osotogari/tai otoshi uchikomi.

Generally everyone has favorite combinations. Some combinations are actually the same throw, one after another. Koga does that a lot (You can see a not-so-good example of it in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCqeFyLPTao at about 1:27 against the russian). Enter for seoi nage, starts to come back out and then enters again right after. I do it with harai goshi, you can see it in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6KwlrDWu3g

So, work your combinations. A lot of Judo guys find it helpful to sit down and write all the possible combinations down. A short example of mine would be this:

Hiza Guruma to Hiza Guruma
Hiza Guruma to Ouchi Gari
Hiza Guruma to Harai Goshi
Hiza Guruma to Ouchi Gari to Harai Goshi

Harai goshi to Osoto Gari
Osoto Gari to Harai Goshi

Etc etc...

I make an effort to practice them all in randori so that when it comes time for an actual fight, I'm able to do it without thinking about it.

[Spoonman7]

the more times you dio randori and the longer yo take jdo, you will start to see openings then capitalize, yo always start going for one thro bt then as yo become advanced, yo will se one or two throws to get the one you want.

[georgejjr]

At the national team training camps (no, I wasn't on the national team, but I was good enough to be allowed on the mats on the camp) they tell you that during each randori you should be working on one thing (usually a combo or the like, but that depends upon your present skill level). Don't worry about winning or losing, that's for shia (competition) ... in randori I've thrown guys I could never throw in competition. In fact, the world class guys are often easy to throw in randori because they're working on some little detail of technique and couldn't care less about anything else - they've proven themselves in competition, and anyone silly enough to think that beating them in randori means anything is in for a world of surprise if they ever line up against them in competition.

Take a throw (say you're working on uchimata), and during randori play with ways of setting it up (ouchigari to uchimata, different grips, different movement ... try to catch them moving to each side etc). Concentrate on your technique, don't worry about being thrown yourself (ie don't be defensive, you're working on your offense here, right?). The biggest mistake beginners make is treating randori like shia - in randori you're working on your timing and technique, you're learning to succeed at one little thing at a time. If your partner throws you a thousand times, but you get off five good techniques its a successsful randori.

Do the same throw until you get it right ... it might takes months or even years, but keep at it. Once you can get off a throw under a hundred different circumstances, add a new one.

I should add that sometimes you have in class shia (competition), and you should treat that the same as a regular competition, doing whatever it takes to win. But in a good club you'll be doing more randori than shia ... remember the difference. It'll make a huge difference in your judo in a year's time.