[TKDmmafiter]

How often is ground grappling used in Judo competitions? I haven't seen much in the clips that I have watched. When they try to go to the ground, the referee breaks them up. Why is this?



oh an dp.s..

do most judo schools give a good grappling program?

[judogido]

Groundwork is not used that often. Rules are geared towards standing work in judo.

Basically, the "idea" is that groundwork is permitted to continue "while progress is being made". Therefore, as soon as you get stuck in halfguard and cannot escape quickly, or if you are working to sink a choke/armbar and the opponent has a persistent defense, the fight gets stopped & re-started standing.

The referee needs to see "progress" and in theory will let the game go as long as it is moving forward. If one player stalls for too long or doesnt bother to atack on the ground & remains standing - the game gets a restart. Some refs carry this to extremes though and practically calle "matte" for the restart seemingly as soon as the fight goes to ground. Very frustrating for the judoka who DO want to do newaza.

While this IS a good rule in theory because it makes for a fast-paced ground-game and prevents the long & boring stalled ground grappling matches sometimes seen in BJJ, it HAS become TOO quick and fights are barely given SECONDS on the ground.

Because of this, there are some competitive judoka with very little ground-game because of course - they will only train in what benefts them in competition.

I figure it explains why some judoka get pwned by BJJers on the ground because they just dont spend the training time to develop more than a rudimentary groundwork game - often then only geared towards attacking the turtle - useless against a BJJer because a (well-trained) BJJer doesnt give his back easily (unless he's versed in the Telles-game).

There's nothing WRONG with the actual judo ground-game, the techniques are solid, it is just that it is WAY under-utilised. You will spend SOME time training on the ground - depending on where you are it is probably something like 80/20 standing/ground, though some go 50/50, some less - like 90/10.

Ask 100 judoka and probably 80-90 will want more time on the ground in competition & training.

[Travis Trayer]

I've felt that the ground time I've gotten is pretty good. You have to be very active and on the move. It is also easy to neutralize the ground game in judo. Just hold and protect yourself. Although I think where judo guys get in trouble is that it is better to be good at pinning than submitting. So in submission game they are behind.

[TKDmmafiter]

So then

is judo worth adding as a grappling component to my taekwondo striking?

[judogido]

Yes, Muerto. It is.

Now quit asking and start training. You'll get the same answer here as in the striking forum.

[Commissar]

Hahahaha

No offense to Taekwondo, but if you're going to use that as striking, I wouldn't bother adding any grappling to that.

[Frodo]

There are types of scoring in judo:

• Ippon (One Point)
• Waza-ari (Good Technical Advantage)
• Yuko (Moderate Technical Advantage)
• Koka (Minor Techncial Advantage)

Ippon is a point. You only need one point in judo to win. The others can be likened to advantages in some grappling tournaments. However, judo gives different values to how effective or with how much skill your advantage was. To win with these types of points you have to do either:

1. Ippon Win: First to get an ippon. To get an ippon:
   • When a contestant with control throws the other contestant largely on his back with considerable force and speed.
   • When a contestant holds with a pinning technique the other contestant, who is unable to get away for 25 seconds after the announcement of "Osaekomi" (beginning of a pin).
   • When a contestant gives up by tapping twice or more with his hand or foot or says "Maitta" (I give up!) generally as a result of pinning technique, joint lock technique or choking technique.
   • When a contestant is incapacitated by the effect of a joint lock technique or choking technique.
   • (Compound Win) Where one contestant gains a Waza-ari and his opponent receives three "Shidos" (minor penalities).
   • Should one contestant be penalised with "Hansoku-make" (major penality), the other contestant shall immediately be declared the winner.
   
   
2. Waxa-ari Win: First to get two Waza-ari wins too. To get an Waza-ari:
   • When a contestant with control throws the other contestant, but the technique is partially lacking in one of the other three elements necessary for Ippon.
   • When a contestant holds with a pinning technique the other contestant who is unable to get away for 20 seconds or more, but less than 25 seconds.
   • Should one contestant have been penalised three Shidos, the other contestant shall receive Waza-ari immediately.
   
   
3. Yuko Win: Whoever at the end of the match has the most yukos. To get a yuko:
   • When a contestant with control throws the other contestant, but the technique is partially lacking in two of the other three elements necessary for Ippon.
   • When a contestant holds with a pinning techniue the other contestant who is unable to get away for 15 seconds or more but less than 20 seconds.
   • Should one contestant have been penalised two (2) Shidos, the other contestant shall receive Yuko immediately.
   
   
4. Koka Win: Whoever at the end of the match has the most kokas. To get a koka:
   • When a contestant with control throws the other contestant onto one shoulder, his thigh(s), or buttocks with speed and force.
   • When a contestant holds with a pinning technique the other contestant who is unable to get away for 10 seconds or more but less than 15 seconds.
   • Should one contestant have been penalised one (1) Shido, the other contestant shall receive Koka immediately.

You could have a million koka, but if your opponent has one yuko then he wins. Likewise, you could have a million yuko, but if your opponent has a waza-ari then he still wins. Of course, an ippon wins despite any of the others you might have, and two waza-ari equals an ippon.

In judo, if you hit the ground and it isn't an ippon, they you start grappling. You have to be making apparent progress on the ground. Otherwise the judge will stop you and reset the match standing (as if you went out of bounds). Lately referees tend to have a very strict definition of progress. If you don't attempt anthing sub within a few seconds he will reset you. Even picking him up off the mat 1 inch - without a slam (a slam would penalize you IIRC) - will reset both of you standing. Therefore it is in the best interest of the defending guy to stall as much as possible.

[TKDmmafiter]

Originally Posted by Commissar

Hahahaha

No offense to Taekwondo, but if you're going to use that as striking, I wouldn't bother adding any grappling to that.

What..?

Don't try to start a TKD debate in here, idiot. The thread's about judo not TKD, troll.

[azjudoboxer]

Basically it depends on the school and whats going on. If you're on the ground, and making progress against your opponent the grappling will keep going. As soon as the action stops they stand you up. If you lay there unable to do anything against each either the grappling stops. If you take him down, and keep working towards a pin, or choke, or sub, then the grappling will go as long as needed. I've had a match where I grappled for almost 5 minutes after a throwing a guy 15 seconds into a match. I've had matches where i threw a guy, and pinned immediately after hitting the mat. So it depends, either way Judo will definately help your take down and takedown defense skills, plus expose you to subs, and chokes. Which IMO makes it better then wrestling.

[Q mystic]

Originally Posted by Bighead

I've felt that the ground time I've gotten is pretty good. You have to be very active and on the move. It is also easy to neutralize the ground game in judo. Just hold and protect yourself. Although I think where judo guys get in trouble is that it is better to be good at pinning than submitting. So in submission game they are behind.

Agreed. Alot of the fighters simply choose to stand or 1 or the other gets into a 'stalling' position for the stand.