[Frodo]

I read this on another forum:

Whats up folks you can read this for yourself in the black belt magazine March issue with Dan Inosanto on the Cover. OK OK no one freak out about reading this magazine. If you cant find it ill retype it as they have it on page 123.

Jimmy Pedro says: In his 5 tips on fighting MMA from the guy who has 0 MMA fights from what I know and could find out.

#4 You should learn Judo

judo is the best remedy for martial artist looking to prepare themselves for action in the ring or on the streets because os the breadth and depth of its take downs and mat work. Frankly, judo's treatment of both skill sets trumps those of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and wrestling. In certain situations Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and wrestling have their strengths, but when it comes to being a single, comprehensive art judo RULES. Privately many Brazilian jiu jitsu black belts will agree; in fact many of the most successful ones come from a judo background. Need proof? watch a few MMA matches in the company of a skilled Judoka and ask him to point all of the missed opportunities for the foot sweeps while the competitors are struggling for position against the fence or ropes. Sometimes the openings are so obvious the it hurts to just watch. Further more judo can give a fighter a weapon for taking down a opponent who's familiar such as the double leg takedown.


Caution: If you take up Judo dont expect instant gratification. It takes a lil longer to perfect a throw than it does to learn a triangle choke.

Caveat: If you're a mixed martial artist make sure you train at a judo facility that accepts you and your style. Also make sure the offers hard core judo classes. If your unable to find such a place, you're welcome at my club.

It is sad that Jimmy Pedro seems to have jumped the shark with this message. Who has Pedro trained in MMA? He certainly hasn't competed in MMA.

I'm a brown belt (sankyu) in judo and I like judo, but a lot of judo's problems is the "do" part. "Do" means the way, as in the way of life. Some judoka get so attached to judo as THE WAY that they end up looking down on every other way. They forget that not everyone is the same kind of person. Even in judo, different people have different tokuiwaza (favorite techniques). A taller person might prefer ashiwaza (mostly foot sweeps) while a shorter person might like koshiwaza (hip throws). So he should know that different people need different styles. Nobody is the same.

To suggest that only one way is the best way - as a way of life - is quite frankly against the spirit of judo. Namely it violates the principle of maximum efficiency with minimum effort. Even using his premises (that I also reject), which makes more sense: spending 5 years becoming proficient enough at throws to use them in an MMA fight with a possible shot at finishing the fight or 3 years to learn the "easier" sankaku jime (triangle choke) and absolutely finish fights. Obviously using his own statements, learning BJJ is more with the spirit of judo than learning judo itself!

It sounds like Pedro drank the Kool-Aid a little too much. Pity. The only absolute answer that I know of in martial arts is that personal preference is very important. Not everyone has the same attributes or the same strengths or weaknesses. Not every situation calls for the same type of thinking. So you shouldn't expect any one person, school, camp, style or philosophy to be absolutely correct. Bruce Lee said it best: be like water.

As an aside: I mean, beyond the GIA tapes, I find most BJJers more open to cross-training than most judoka. Saulo insists his students at his BJJ University do judo, for example. Pablo Popovitch has a wrestling class at his school IIRC. Many BJJ schools seem to add wrestling and judo programs to help their BJJ, but I hardly ever hear wrestling or judo schools adding BJJ to their curricula. We are an exception at Team Balance Pittsburgh - having been invited to share the facility with South Hills Judo. I wish more judoka in the States were open minded.

[georgejjr]

I agree Jimmy lost it on this one ... I've no idea where he's coming from.

Disagree about more BJJ'ers open to cross training - that might be a local condition where you live (or maybe in the US). Up in the frozen north it's the other way around; the BJJ schools for the most part (yes, there are exceptions) concentrate on BJJ, and won't even bring in wrestling coaches for their no-gi component. Meanwhile quite a few judo clubs are bringing in both wrestlers (especially since the Russians added so many wrestling moves to judo in the 80's) and BJJ'ers to teach submissions.

Not sure what the difference is, other than up here most BJJ clubs are run by people trying to make their living from it (which I think is a good thing), and so may not want or be able to pay others to teach wrestling or judo, while 99% of judo clubs are run by volunteers, so all that is needed is to look around for a volunteer from a different discipline.

PS: yes I'm trying to divert the topic. I've always had huge respect for Jimmy Pedro, and am really disappointed in what he said - so lets turn this into the usual judo vs BJJ discussion

[radman]

[quote=georgejjr;20929271]I agree Jimmy lost it on this one ... I've no idea where he's coming from.

Disagree about more BJJ'ers open to cross training - that might be a local condition where you live (or maybe in the US).....Meanwhile quite a few judo clubs are bringing in both wrestlers (especially since the Russians added so many wrestling moves to judo in the 80's) and BJJ'ers to teach submissions.

Not sure what the difference is, other than up here most BJJ clubs are run by people trying to make their living from it (which I think is a good thing), and so may not want or be able to pay others to teach wrestling or judo, while 99% of judo clubs are run by volunteers, so all that is needed is to look around for a volunteer from a different discipline.
QUOTE]

Well I think Jimmy goes a bit overboard with the benefits of cross-trainning other discplines, especially Judo.

For the first part, Russian Judoka's have always employed wrestling, because of Sambo.

Renzo's has brought in Olymic medalist judo Teimoc Johnson to his facility in NY.

Lots of Judoka's have had wrestling in their background.

I think Jimmy is simply being very promotive of Judo as part of MMA trainning and I'll have to agree with him, it doesnt hurt to add those techniques.

[LocalNmass]

He's entitled to his opinions,from what i hear he's good on the ground and no stranger to training with BJJ guys @ his academy.
I'd like to try some judo @ his academy but dont want to quit BJJ in order to find the time, and being a casual/hobby grappler dont want to train 4-5 days a week
Not to mention judo players may view a bjj player as needing to be taught a lesson

[Throwing Dummy]

Frodo you might as well just invite all the worlds trolls to your party.

Somebody is going to jump in and say that the triangle is a judo technique anyway, or some such fightin' words. Next thing you know all the nuthuggers will be talking with their mouths full again.

You are dead on about personal preference. I prefer judo cause it helps my base and core more than BJJ does. I prefer BJJ cause I can walk normally the next day after practice (sometimes). I like MMA cause I like getting hit in the face? or something.

Jimmy Pedro close with Rhadi, they do know MMA pretty good, but I agree with you overall.

[Q mystic]

I agree with Radman...prolly just promo. He prolly believes it but only spoke for promo and not to put the rest down.


And while we're here...try to keep in mind that Pedro wooda smashed Marcelo.

[Toujourpret]

Originally Posted by Q mystic

I agree with Radman...prolly just promo. He prolly believes it but only spoke for promo and not to put the rest down.


And while we're here...try to keep in mind that Pedro wooda smashed Marcelo.

^^^^What bet did you lose to have to make that your sig?

[BillP3]

One of my BJJ coaches (Dave Ellis) is ranked 6th in Judo in the US at 90kg and hes a brown in BJJ (should be black). It really is personal preference, hes a hybrid fighter and Pedro is right that Judo is a good thing to learn for MMA but it is by no means THE thing to learn for MMA.

I personally put most of my time into BJJ becuase to me it seems more important.

[johil d'o]

Agreed, Jimmy Pedro really jumped the shark on that quote.

[KenTheWalrus]

Originally Posted by Frodo

I'm a brown belt (sankyu) in judo and I like judo, but a lot of judo's problems is the "do" part. "Do" means the way, as in the way of life. Some judoka get so attached to judo as THE WAY that they end up looking down on every other way. They forget that not everyone is the same kind of person. Even in judo, different people have different tokuiwaza (favorite techniques). A taller person might prefer ashiwaza (mostly foot sweeps) while a shorter person might like koshiwaza (hip throws). So he should know that different people need different styles. Nobody is the same.

To suggest that only one way is the best way - as a way of life - is quite frankly against the spirit of judo. Namely it violates the principle of maximum efficiency with minimum effort. Even using his premises (that I also reject), which makes more sense: spending 5 years becoming proficient enough at throws to use them in an MMA fight with a possible shot at finishing the fight or 3 years to learn the "easier" sankaku jime (triangle choke) and absolutely finish fights. Obviously using his own statements, learning BJJ is more with the spirit of judo than learning judo itself!

It sounds like Pedro drank the Kool-Aid a little too much. Pity. The only absolute answer that I know of in martial arts is that personal preference is very important. Not everyone has the same attributes or the same strengths or weaknesses. Not every situation calls for the same type of thinking. So you shouldn't expect any one person, school, camp, style or philosophy to be absolutely correct. Bruce Lee said it best: be like water.

As an aside: I mean, beyond the GIA tapes, I find most BJJers more open to cross-training than most judoka. Saulo insists his students at his BJJ University do judo, for example. Pablo Popovitch has a wrestling class at his school IIRC. Many BJJ schools seem to add wrestling and judo programs to help their BJJ, but I hardly ever hear wrestling or judo schools adding BJJ to their curricula. We are an exception at Team Balance Pittsburgh - having been invited to share the facility with South Hills Judo. I wish more judoka in the States were open minded.

Frodo, I'm not attacking you personally, because I like a lot of the things that you have to say, but I have to disagree with you about the Do comments.

Being a sankyu, you are most likely still very far away from really understanding the do. I'm also a sankyu and I know I'm still a ways off, although I'm starting to see the path. My sensei likes to say that judoka start to learn the Do around yondan and I am taking his word for it.

My disagreement is what you seem to be calling the Do. Do you mean it like the Gracie Way where the diet, lifestyle, and martial arts are all tied together? If that's what you mean, I disagree to a certain point. I see living life in a certain way is more to help understand the Do as opposed to being Do. I see the Way as being more of the intangible connections made in judo. I wish I could explain it, but like I said before, I don't really understand it yet.

Anyway, I don't see Do as a problem. I see Do as a solution.

I do agree that there is a "judo is better than other martial arts" mentality, but I don't think that this mentality and Do should be confused with one another. That mentality is definitely not the Do in my mind. -ken