[Bubble Boy]

This is from a recent post over at www.judoinfo.com forums by Wayland J. Pulkkinen.

NOTE: Anything in italiacs are editing by me for clarification purposes.

The authors M.A. credentials:

Kodokan Judo (4th dan)
Japanese Traditional Jiujitsu (1st dan)
Brazillian Jiu Jitsu (brown: Bravado jiu jitsu)
Boxing (4 years: Backstreet Boxing Guelph)
Chokushin Aiki Jujutsu (Sempai)
former national level free-style wrestler
former national judo team (Canada)

Here's a link to his book (a good book btw):
http://www.twoj.org/twoj_shop/elite.html

And here's how he responded to a question when asked to compare and contrast Judo and BJJ, and how a judoka can best transition from judo to bjj:

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I will do my best, but I would like to remind you (as I am sure you already know) of other people who have much more experience than I in this combined area (rhadi and dave camarillo)..

for me, bjj started over 6 years ago, ironically after venturing into a karate studio..to me, it looked like newaza, but when i rolled with the guys, it was very different...so different that i did the judo "give your back to a blue belt to give them an advantage move" and the guy caught me in a rear naked...

these were no inexperienced blue belts..at least the blue belts i knew...

that was the first class, the second had some guy catch me in 3 consequetive leg locks..okay, i thought, this is definitely newaza, but not the kind i am used to..

after there 1 month, i got familiar with their newaza style, and was better able to anticipate the moves..

what are the differences?:

bjj: for me is was developing my own open guard, using a Kashawazaki (a judoka famous for his newaza) approach, with quick spinning and reversals to get either a quick koshi jime or ude/hiza gatame..the default was always reversal to what i was more used to...top or mount control

from there, i quickly realized that my osae waza (pins) got the bjj players tired, caught them ill prepared and i was able to effectively set up sode guruma jime, and ude garame...in any case, those that did not experience osae waza were very ill prepared for my moves into submissions..

in short, use osae waza and top control and mount to set up your submissions, rather then enter directly into a closed guard and defend and attack from there..

my guard game developed over time, but it was my top game and wide use of its submissions more commonly know in judo competition newaza that gave me an advantage..

now, i am actually trying and succeeding with leg locks, bicep spreaders and knee bars much more, because i am better at playing this style of ground fighting...

for me, it was all about hope to incorporate bjj's moves into what i had already learned and was proficient at...rather than relearning all the moves altogether..

ironically, i tend to fight more like a bjj person on the ground rather than a judoka..a little more methodical and thinking..

for instance, take the opponents body, divide it into to quarters, and secure one quarter at a time until you have 3/4 secured..

always look for as one of my old coaches wayne erdman used to say " christmas presents" and notice how a limb or neck is available for submissions..

and finally, always link your attacks in sequences..never just go for the hail mary one move..for instance, your ude gatame from guard switches to hiza gatame and then omo plata, depending on how your opponent reacts and what they give you...

your opponent determines what moves you do, your job is to recognize what is available and link them altogether...

i hope this answers some of your questions..but the best place to discover this is on the mats developing your own style of play..

one final end point if i may...it was very important for my personally to research and understand the historical relationship between bjj and judo..once i was satisfied that bjj was in fact a judo derivative of the day..i was better psychologically to link the two together, rather than take the internet fishing bait of one over another...this also showed me a new pearl, which is the judo of that time (ie mifune) had a lot more to offer me today than Olympic style flamboyant fighting...it was, to say the least, revitalizing for me since i retired from competition and was really unsure of where to take my judo (and martial art) studies next..

it also allowed me to explore other jiu jitsu styles, and boxing, which i know try to incorporate into my judo study...

but, this past year, i did jump on the old judo competition band wagon for a little bit and squeezed off a respectable 5th in the world masters..i guess some of it is still inside..

thanks for asking my view


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A refreshing take on a subject that usually brings out the worst in us around these parts.



...

[Jujitsuboxer]

nice read seems liek a bad dude

[Balto]

From rolling with judo guys, I would say the number one thing is to just stop giving your back.

The ones that actually try in groundwork usually do have good pins and stuff, so that post is solid advice.

Just stop giving the back with hooks all the time. Laying there for two minutes telling me I can't choke you because I'm not allowed to touch your face when you tuck your chin is NOT a victory.

[Spoonman7]

that was a very good read, thank you for posting

[Bubble Boy]

Originally Posted by Jujitsuboxer

nice read seems liek a bad dude

Yeah, he's got quite the bio. I'd freakin' settle for a black belt in judo and a blue in bjj by the time I'm 50.
Just seems like he's got the right attitude...especially for a guy who could rip most people's heads off without really thinking about it. Kinda' puts some of the flame wars around here (usually between two guys with a grand total of maybe 2.3 years of training between them) into perspective.
Most guys over at judoinfo are pretty cool. Half the time you'd never know you were chatting on a forum thread with a guy who competed in the world championships or something.

[Bubble Boy]

Originally Posted by Balto

From rolling with judo guys, I would say the number one thing is to just stop giving your back.

The ones that actually try in groundwork usually do have good pins and stuff, so that post is solid advice.

Just stop giving the back with hooks all the time. Laying there for two minutes telling me I can't choke you because I'm not allowed to touch your face when you tuck your chin is NOT a victory.

Totally agree.

I also think us Judo guys have some issues with guard work. I had a bjj 4 stripe blue (Kimura594, he used to post here), throw a spider guard at me during newaza training and I was clueless at how to defend it. CLUELESS. I was tapping all night long. To his credit he instructed me on defenses to the spider guard, and a few weeks later I was good to go (plus I watched a video on the spider guard, heh, heh).

Anyway, I read that post by Wayland and dedcided it's time to go over to the dark side and study some bjj.

[tudor_bjj]

BWAHAHAHA! Teh big hero tapped to a blue belt...

j/k That's the right attitude towards goundwork cross-training. As BB, also, pointed out with his spider-guard dilemma. INCORPORATE!

[aaron_mag]

Originally Posted by Bubble Boy

Totally agree.

I also think us Judo guys have some issues with guard work. I had a bjj 4 stripe blue (Kimura594, he used to post here), throw a spider guard at me during newaza training and I was clueless at how to defend it. CLUELESS. I was tapping all night long. To his credit he instructed me on defenses to the spider guard, and a few weeks later I was good to go (plus I watched a video on the spider guard, heh, heh).

Anyway, I read that post by Wayland and dedcided it's time to go over to the dark side and study some bjj.

People get into flame wars online, but when it comes to face to face the manners kick back in. And every BJJ guy I've ever met has been eager to share their techniques and counters to those techniques. Heck...most martial artists are that way. Guys who have stuck to martial arts for a long time like working out, period. The only reason we focus on different aspects of 'the game' is because we're not independently wealthy with all the time in the world to work on whatever strikes our fancy. So on a face to face level there really is no problem between the martial arts.

[azjudoboxer]

The way he describes using your top game, and pins to tire a guy out, and set up for other subs, is very much like how we approach our game. The two bjj guys who came to our club admittedly in pure start from the ground grappling were better, but we'd use our much better throwing ability, and pins to set up time and oppurtenities to do subs. I think the main difference between us, and "Olympic style" Judo, is unless were doing a tourny, we don't freak out about being on our back, and don't try and roll and give our backs up. We tie up, try for reversals, sweeps, etc. Excellent post, i need to start going there

[Bubble Boy]

Just something else of interest. Rhadi Ferguson (2004 Olympic Judo USA Competitor, 4 time National Judo Champ) recently got his black belt also in Brazilian Jui-Jitsu. Here's his comments:

--------------------------



"Tonight was a surprise and a blessing. Since moving to South Florida it has been an honor to train with one of the best fight teams in the world. After moving from Maryland I was very concerned about finding another school that was on par with the instruction that I was receiving from the Olympic Training Center and that of my former Brazilian Jiujitsu instructor and personal friend Lloyd Irvin. Lloyd took me under his wing and not only added color to my belt but he colored my game and taught me the ins and outs of life on the mat. When I arrived in Florida I arrived with a full set of tools that Liborio and the members of American Top Team were able to use, sharpen and add to and I can honestly say that I feel that my martial arts career is full. I'm sure there is much more to learn and many more areas in which I can grow, but I must say that I am blessed to have been instructed by the best in the business - I've had the best of three worlds. I've been coached by 1984 Olympic Bronze Medalist Eddie Liddie, I've been instructed by Hall of Famer Lloyd Irvin, and I've been taught and have been instructed by arguably one of the the best Brazilian Jiujitsu practitioners to ever put on a gi, Ricardo Liborio. Lloyd Irvin has certainly proved his mettle as an instructor and Liborio welcomed me into his dojo by providing me with one of the best @ss whippings that I've ever had on the mat and then showing me where I went wrong. His instruction has increased my mat game ten-fold. Tonight I had to fight back the tears as I thought about the times that I've been on the mat down here in Florida with Liborio, Renato Tavares, Jeff Monson, Marcus Aurelio, Dennis Kang, and many others. I thought about the times that I rolled with Lloyd and Donald Achnick, and Mike Fowler in Maryland and we practice as if we didn't like each other. It was great having my wife and my son on hand when I received my black belt in Brazilian Jiujitsu tonight. I felt honored to receive my promotion this evening. There have been so many people who have helped me in my career as a grappler. Tonight was an awesome surprise. The American Top Team is an awesome place to train. Any night you may have the opportunity to practice with 4 or 5 World Championship medalists in BJJ. In America that's just crazy, but for me it's a reality every Monday through Saturday! :-) Long Live Team Lloyd Irvin and Long Live - The American Top Team!!!"

Rhadi Ferguson:
BJJ Black Belt American Top Team
2004 Olympian 4-Time National Judo Champion
Abu Dhabi Veteran
2001 Mundial Silver Medalist (Roxa)
2001 Pan Am Silver Medalist (Roxa)

-----------

Congrats Rhadi. Can you imagine getting out on the mat with one of these guys? Scary.
Source link: http://mma.tv/tuf/index.cfm?ac=ListM...11&FID=1&pc=34



...