How much of a weight advantage to cancel out one belt rank of difference in BJJ?

[SuperSuperRambo]

Originally Posted by pikeamus

So hypothetically you guys might support the proposition that a 135lb blue belt that competes evenly with a 180lb blue should be pretty close to being a purple?

Depends really. So many factors can play into it. Is the 180 athletic? Did he just get his blue or has he had it for a year or two?

[SuperSuperRambo]

Originally Posted by Balto

These estimates are way too low. It's like 75-100 lbs for one belt, and they have to be more athletic too.

Most of you guys are probably bigger, but I'm 150 lbs so this happens all the time for me. If you're not 200 lbs or more, I usually don't even consider you to be much bigger, but even at that point I still expect to be able to do well. It's really only around the 250 lbs mark that I actually start having to make material changes.

I tend to agree more with this, being similar size.

But let me ask you this, you're a purple, right? Don't you find that as you advance in rank, the weight can be harder to overcome? There are guys that I used to be able to hang with despite the big size and strength advantage, we're both training with the same consistency, but now they tend to get the better of me after having narrowed the skills gap. Has you had the same experience with some long-term larger training partners?

[DaRuckus337]

Anything up to 10% bigger by weight makes only a small difference imo, with the difference in performance being more about athleticism and skill than size. Moving up to 20% bigger by weight, I begin to really notice the size/strength difference, and it's harder to fight out of certain 50/50 type positions and win certain grip battles. Still though, this amount of weight really doesn't make up for a clear difference in skill/rank. Not until we're talking about 35-50% bigger by weight do I think matches start getting pretty even between smaller guys with significantly more bjj skills and bigger guys with significantly less. For the 155 pound guys out there, I would say that not until 210-2301b range does it begin to really feel like I am really being stifled by the sheer size and strength of the opponent. There are still plenty of things that work against a guy that much larger, but there are also plenty of things that don't work, which may be why at this weight difference a skill difference becomes less important. That is to say that the smaller man actually loses the ability to use a large percentage of their skills when up against someone so much bigger, which essentially brings his skill level and repertoire of techniques down to the level of the big guy he's rolling with.

[Thaiboxer10000]

experience on how to deal with a much bigger opponent is everything. I have been tending to stay away from the really big guys just to not get hurt accidentally, but rolling with one of these guys the other day i realized i was missing out. The techniques that i usually go to really didn't work, i quickly saw that a totally different game plan was needed. No guard, just feet on the hips to try & control the situation.

A real eye opener for me, i didn't have any concept of having to radically change tactics like that. Similar probably to adapting sport bjj to self defense, a totally different game.

[Zankou]

At 190ish, I'd say it's around 50 pounds where it starts evening out. Though it depends a lot on the nature of the weight, 50 average pounds aren't much of a big deal, 50 pounds of fat is relatively easy to deal with, but somebody jacked with 50 pounds all-muscle is a real problem.

[Vector_X]

It would really matter on how one were to use that weight advantage. I find if we are near the same skill level 60lbs is about the point where i will start running into big issues just because of how much more leverage you need to pull certain things off.

[Balto]

Originally Posted by SuperSuperRambo

I tend to agree more with this, being similar size.

But let me ask you this, you're a purple, right? Don't you find that as you advance in rank, the weight can be harder to overcome? There are guys that I used to be able to hang with despite the big size and strength advantage, we're both training with the same consistency, but now they tend to get the better of me after having narrowed the skills gap. Has you had the same experience with some long-term larger training partners?

I'm a blue belt, but I guess I've had my blue for three years now so I have a bit of insight compared to when I just got my blue.

I think that the weight does make a little more difference as the years pile up, but I still think it's a lot closer than what some people were posting. For guys of the same skill level, the weight definitely makes a difference, but if someone has a definite noticeable skill advantage, I think it takes 50 lbs or so for that to even be negated somewhat, and probably like 100 lbs before it can be almost entirely snuffed out.

[FLMikeATT]

Originally Posted by pikeamus

So hypothetically you guys might support the proposition that a 135lb blue belt that competes evenly with a 180lb blue should be pretty close to being a purple?

Maybe. Too many factors to take into consideration.

Perhaps the 135er just has the 180's number. Styles do make fights, even in jiu-jitsu.

I actually have more problems dealing with certain blue belts (around my size) than a few purples that I roll with because their styles and overall game are anathema to mine.

If the 135er consistently owns all the blue belts in the gym, or people who are close to or over 100 lbs heavier than him, then I would say it might be time for a promotion.

[Il Wop-O]

I would say that for colored belts (blue & up), a disparity in muscle mass of 25% or more would negate a belt level. (50 lbs or more for a 200 lb guy maybe?)

From white to blue, I've seen 100+ lbs not help the white belt much.

[tri4ben]

I have thought about this before, and it is about 30-40 lbs from my experience. I am 6'1 and 165 and a 3 stripe bluebelt. I think I am relatively weak for someone my weight, so there are guys that are 180 (and shorter and younger and more agressive) that kill me. Meanwhile, there are guys that are 220 + who are also blue belts (newer blues) that I kill. Also there is a guy that is 130 and 17 years old. If I don't pull guard and triangle / armbar him, I will never pass his guard and will eventually get omoplated from his stupid rubber guard.

I once went against a 130 lb brown belt when I was a newer blue belt and he went through me like I wasn't even there.

I think the worst is when there is a guy who outranks you and is 20-30 lbs heavier. You can't even fake anything.