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Grappling Technique You don't know a heel hook from a toe hold, and that's why you need to come here.

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Old 02-10-2007, 10:55 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Hooks in = Bad defensive tactics

I was watching a military defensive tactics training dvd series last night.
The core of the training in this particular dvd set is wrestling, with a little bjj and judo thrown in.
Some of the obvious is dealt with: don't go to closed guard if your opponent's buddies are standing around, etc.

But I learned something about getting hooks in too. In the dvd the instructor gets his hooks in and is going for a choke. The "bad guy" then lays out flat and pins the instructor's legs to the ground while they are hooked in. Two other "bad guys" from the side of the mat then begin to attack the instructor (of course, this was a demonstration only).

The alternative that the instructor showed was to kind of grapevine the legs without going inside for hooks. That way if he needed to disengage quickly he could.
He still had some control over the subjects legs with the grapevine thing, but he had to really go for the arms to get better control. Also, he couldn't really go for the choke for fear of losing positioning, so he went for control of the arms. The end goal wasn't a submission, it was control, or the ability to disengage and get away from the attackers.

It was fascinating to see how grappling changes when taken out of it's sporting context and is applied to a self defense / defense tactics situation.

Seems like we could all learn a lot by having a third person standing there ready to attack during our "self defense" training. I'm sure nobody does it. But it might be something to check out sometime in your training. It will change the way you look at grappling.
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Old 02-10-2007, 11:14 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Groundfighting with other people around is dumb, period.
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Old 02-10-2007, 11:42 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naantje
Groundfighting with other people around is dumb, period.
Agreed. However, there is always the possibility of being put on the ground against your will. At that point you have no choice but to ground fight. Knowing some things NOT to do once there might be helpful.
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Old 02-10-2007, 12:23 PM   #4 (permalink)
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we actually do two on one grappling with some guys at the gym from time to time.

it changes the game quite a bit, yes.
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Old 02-10-2007, 01:50 PM   #5 (permalink)

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Quote:
Originally Posted by naantje
Groundfighting with other people around is dumb, period.
Any kind of fighting when theres other people around is dumb, unless of course you have other peoples too. Multiple opponents = run, because you're likely going to end up on the ground anyway, but not under your own terms...
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Old 02-10-2007, 01:58 PM   #6 (permalink)

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I like to see different ideas when it comes to fighting. I agree it is not best to go to the ground if other people are around. In a street fight I would try to stick with the knee in the belly or other top mount position. I also tend to punch more then go for a submission.
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Old 02-10-2007, 02:07 PM   #7 (permalink)

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I will never cease to be amazed at the people who say, "going to the ground in a multiple attacker scenario is stupid." Okay, well if you are implying that to keep it standing is the best, I hope you only mean that you're in a better position to run away.

If you are fighting one of my buddies and me and a couple friends decide to jump in, I don't care if you are standing or on the ground. You're not going to be able to defend six fists and or legs coming at you simultaneously and from different angles. And if I'm the guy behind you, I'm going to do one of three things: A. Run up and punt you between the legs. B. Club you with the nearest hard object. C. Grab you, probably in a full nelson, with my legs one in front of the other and between yours, surf-board style, so you won't be kicking me in the nads--and my friends will promptly beat you into hamburger with an assortment of fists, objects, etc.


I've said it once, and I'll say it again, the only solution to fighting multiple attackers is not to, unless they are drunk, small, or obviously not game to fight. Track and field is the best training for multiple attackers.

In another thread similar to this one, there is a story about Urijah Faber being attacked by some locals in an Asian country. He ducked, dived, hit and ran, and barely got away with his life. And the vast majority of the story is about him dodging and running. There were ten guys, not easy for anyone, but it should be noted that he didn't take out one of them. Whenever he had a split second to throw a strike or semi-throw one of his attackers, it only served to create an opening for him to run. In the midst of dodging blows and trying to keep track of multiple people in various positions, he couldn't manage to land any solid, finishing blows.

If he had been anything less than an accomplished MMA fighter in the best shape of his life, he would have been toast. Imagine one of us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOQLg7Kc8So


Sorry about the rant, and I know no one has directly stated that you can out-strike multiple attackers. But that's what many people mean when they say, "I wouldn't go the ground in a street fight." But, it's very possible that you are all knowledgeable, sensible people and nobody meant that. This is for the goofballs who will inevitably show up and say that their brother KO'd six people in a streetfight--some of them armed, or "you can do it, you just have to...blah, blah, blah."
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Old 02-10-2007, 02:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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If you EVER take the guys back.. then instead of controlling him period just get off and run away. Sounds dumb.. but I'm also a retard myself.
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Old 02-10-2007, 03:12 PM   #9 (permalink)

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The only real tactic for multiple attackers is called a concealed carry permit.
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Old 02-10-2007, 06:06 PM   #10 (permalink)

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in a street fight or in a battle situation knee on belly is the best position because it is painful, easy to disengage if needed and there are a ton of things u can do from there.
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