Half guard/butterfly guard

Antnymofo · 03-29-2006, 03:31 PM

There was a stickey for this stuff, but it aparently doesn't work anymore. Anyway, I was wondering wut u guys think are the key concepts for the half guard and the butterfly guard for no gi/mma. I love Eddie Bravo's concepts on the half guard, he has some great stuff. I really didn't know in till recently that you should always pummel for the underhook on the same side as the leg you have trapped. I feel stupid about that now. I would just hold on in half guard till I could get back to full guard. I never use the butterfly guard, and have no idea how to effectivly work it, so I would really like to hear some advice on the butterfly guard too. Thanks.

colinm · 03-29-2006, 04:02 PM

the general consensus these days is to get an underhook and get to your side in HG. however, my world got totally turned upside down after i went to seminar this weekend with David Ginsberg, btt blackbelt, and he showed us how to play hg while flat on your back, with an OVERhook, using your outside leg as a butterflyguard hook....and this guy is a pan ams silver medalist as a bb.

**Zankou** · 03-29-2006, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colinm

the general consensus these days is to get an underhook and get to your side in HG. however, my world got totally turned upside down after i went to seminar this weekend with David Ginsberg, btt blackbelt, and he showed us how to play hg while flat on your back, with an OVERhook, using your outside leg as a butterflyguard hook....and this guy is a pan ams silver medalist as a bb.

You can't say that and not explain how to do it! How do you do it?

Sherdog_Mutt · 03-29-2006, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colinm

the general consensus these days is to get an underhook and get to your side in HG. however, my world got totally turned upside down after i went to seminar this weekend with David Ginsberg, btt blackbelt, and he showed us how to play hg while flat on your back, with an OVERhook, using your outside leg as a butterflyguard hook....and this guy is a pan ams silver medalist as a bb.

Sounds like a variant of the quarter guard. I love playing this game against bigger guys.

The quarter guard game revolves around using your one hook to either: a) create space or b) to sweep (kind of like butterfly guard).

**Zankou** · 03-29-2006, 04:48 PM

Alright, I'm demanding an explanation! How do you play this way? It sounds like it would be a great alternative where you can't get a leg trapped and an underhook.

colinm · 03-29-2006, 07:59 PM

lol, ok....

say you've got your partner's right leg trapped. you put your left foot on the inside of his thigh like a butterfly guard. your right leg is through his legs like a normal half guard, and on the left side of his right calf (from your point of view). you've got a good overhook with your left arm on his right arm. you either use your right arm (free arm) to frame on his traps to keep him from coming up too high on you, or to control his left wrist/sleeve when you want to initiate your attack.

to attack, you do a variation of the standard butterfly guard sweep, but you need to kick out his left leg when he goes to base out because you will not have the same momentum as if you were sitting up in a butterfly guard. if this fails, it will usually create the space to dig your right arm under his left armpit and go for a "hugging" armbar, or initiate the same standard butterfly guard sweep to the other side(this time with the underhook from going for the armbar on his left arm and the overhook from before with your left arm). if he blocks that, , release your overhook and you can work your way to double underhooks and butterfly guard with this process, if the sweep is blocked.

oops: almost forgot you have the standard triangle, omoplata combination as well (w/ overhook)

*catches breath*

the most common mistake is to elevate the guy for the first sweep and give him an assisted guard pass by just dumping him onto sidemount. this is hard to explain, but when you are in the midst of the sweep you need to post on your head a little and try to pull your right shoulder under you as you sweep to get on top - you're basically maintaining the right angle with the person.

get it?

**Zankou** · 03-29-2006, 09:17 PM

Awesome, sounds very intriguing. The only part I don't have a clear picture on is what you do with your right leg. I guess it starts out stretched over the trapped leg, like a lock-down. But then you use it to kick out the non-trapped leg as you sweep? How and when do you transition between those? Do you just kind of whip it over mid sweep?

colinm · 03-31-2006, 10:56 AM

you won't be able to pull him over you because you don't have the momentum from flat on your back. so, you simply elevate him with your hook (straight up) and usually this will bring him to his feet in a "downward dog" (yoga) position - i think thats what its called. at this point, you release your fight leg from his right leg, and push on his left knee while pulling his left arm under you...then just roll over and get on top.

**Zankou** · 03-31-2006, 02:21 PM

Got it. Many thanks. I will see if I can drill this one, it's very interesting (and I think would improve hook sweep technique more generally).

tudor_bjj · 03-31-2006, 02:50 PM

The main principle of this guard is a) holding him close to you and not letting him back away or stand up with the overhook; b) creating space and not letting him "climb" on to you. You are not supposed to be flattend out here. It's a kind of guard that gives you more options than the others when you are flattend out, but don't rely on that. Main weapons: hook for sweeps and control of the non-overhooking arm (esp. triangle)