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Old 07-13-2007, 01:12 PM   #51 (permalink)

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Originally Posted by Zankou View Post
Yep, that's a nice series that hooks in really well with the reverse DLR. It is missing some of the slick developments shown in those youtube sets. For example, capturing the arm and clamping it to the leg helps a lot in doing those last two sweeps. Also turning your "far" leg into a hook is very beneficial, like a reversed half butterfly.
I've talked to Jeff and he's since made all of those changes after seeing Franjinha teach it in the Paragon DVD.

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I am starting to envision this as a continuous series depending on his orientation, from regular DLR to reverse DLR to z guard to deep half guard, all the same idea, depending on your opponent's angle. Add some shin/single leg guard action, and you have a whole world. Then top off with helicopter sweeps.
Agreed. And you're reading my mind about helicopter sweeps.
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Old 07-13-2007, 02:14 PM   #52 (permalink)

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I've been trying to come up with drills for several core movements for this game, ones that will isolate the rocking motions. I don't know if I can adequately describe them in text but my notes will at least make sense to me.

In his half guard DVD, Stephan Kesting shows a drill that trains the main rocking motion of the traditional half guard. From a good half guard (low with an underhook), he comes up to his knees like you would for a toe-grab sweep or a single leg. His partner whizzers him down. He dives in and spins under and goes for the sweep that counters this. His partner throws his arms out and posts to defend. He spins back the other way and comes back to his knees. And repeat over and over. The purpose isn't to get either sweep. What's important is getting the rocking motion going fast and hard in both directions.

I've been mulling over creating two other drills like this for several other rocking motions I think are important. One is the "backroll" motion, used to enter deep half guard, where you pull them on top of you and lift them by trying to roll back over your shoulder and crunching your legs to you chest. The other is once you're deep under the leg, swinging your legs and turning your hips from side to side to carry their trapped leg around (like in the Shinzato-Silvestre clips). In reality, these movements end up being used together, but I want to separate them, develop each, then recombine them.

The basic idea for the drills are:

1) Start with long distance half guard (framing posture, knee on hip). Duck head to their knee and underhook the leg. Backroll and carry them on the knee. Use bottom leg to pull them up. Get into deep half guard. Partner posts to base and puts his weight back. Rock back out to long distance half guard. Repeat quickly.

2) Enter deep half guard using the previous move. From there, swing legs and turn hips from side to side. Carry their leg back and forth like a metronome. Partner posts and balances to not get swept.

Both of these are zero to low resistance. The specifics grips can change because the key point is the rocking hip motion. In fact, this will be a chance to get used to switching the arms and hooks around while keeping the constant rocking going.

Once I see how these drills work out, I'll see about creating higher resistance version. I imagine the next stage will simply be to have the top man move around, put his weight in different places, weakly try to get different postures, etc. but not aggressively try to kill the motion or pass.
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Old 07-13-2007, 02:54 PM   #53 (permalink)

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Note to Self: DRILL BOTH SIDES.
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Old 07-13-2007, 03:02 PM   #54 (permalink)
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One of the fun things about this game, what I think of as "open half guard," is that it's still so under-developed relative to other portions of BJJ. You can see the game developed and improved by various people as we practice it.
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Old 07-13-2007, 03:15 PM   #55 (permalink)

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This thread is a goldmine. I've been working soley on my half guard for the past 2 months. I've seen some improvement, but I have so far yet to go.

A question about your "long distance" half guard where you have a knee on the hip. What is preventing the scissors pass, where he threads his arm through your legs and sprawls? I normally put my knee straight up like Gustavo shows to prevent the pass and also gain space.
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Old 07-13-2007, 03:24 PM   #56 (permalink)
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You have stated the correct .. you just grab the sleeve and go to quarter guard in that situation.

I like to try to armdrag that arm anyways as my number one option from z guard, so usually the opponent is either getting armdragged or trying to protect it. From z guard, here is what I am currently thinking in order:

Option 1: Can I armdrag the near arm?
Option 2: Can I grab the far foot for the foot grab sweep?
Option 3: Can I shuck his near arm over me and get a deep regular half guard?
Option 4: Can I kimura his far arm?
Option 5: Can I drive his far arm over me and dive into deep half guard?
Option 6: Can I reach under his far leg and grab his crossfacing arm, trapping it?
Option 7: Can I push the head and go for omoplata/triangle game?
Option 8: Can I kneebar the far leg?

That's my current set of "z guard" options. I'm sure there a lot of things I'll change, as I've only been focusing on this game for about two months.

Also one thing I find key for z guard is to use your "trapping" foot the exact same way Gustavo shows for the quarter guard -- angled down and always pulling in on the trapped ankle. That way he can't sprawl out. You can tweak his knee sidewise too if he does get the leg extended.
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Old 07-13-2007, 04:09 PM   #57 (permalink)

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My initial counter to the scissors pass has been to not let my knee get crushed. Avoidance is always my first choice. They have to pin my knees together to get this pass to really work. So...

- I simply keep my knee shallow on their hip bone (instead of putting it across their stomach where they can lay on it). It's hard to crush the knee down from here.
- I keep the angle of my knee pointed up, since it's weaker when I have my knee sideway.
- To stop the sprawl, I've been crossing my ankles and pulling their leg in. (I'll now try the "turns toes down" point Zankou stresses.)
- I keep control of the crossfacing arm since they also need it to push the knee down to setup the pass.
- When they start reaching back to thread their arm through, I can grab their triceps and pull it to me so they can't reach deeply.
- Or I can take my knee off the hip and go to normal half guard.
- I can also bring my knee up to their chest or switch to Gustavo's quarter guard.

If they do pin my legs together, I push the face/head to the side, scoot back, sit up, get on my elbow/hand and try to pull my top leg out. From here I can reset my guard or do a slick armdrag to the back.

And Zankou, great list of options. I've been thinking of my basic moves from long distance half guard and that looks like a good collection.
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Old 07-14-2007, 04:08 PM   #58 (permalink)

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Small class on Friday. Only four people showed including myself. The rest were at a local MMA show. Still had a chance to drill and experiment with the half guard some. First time putting it to work no-gi too.

Started the night by having Trog show me how he's been working on this game so far already. He doesn't put his knee in the hip since it's still recovering from surgery, so he just holds their thigh between his. He ducks in with his top arm grabbing their hip and using it to hide his face and push their ribs.

He showed his main sweep. It's like Jeff's first one. He keeps scooting under and framing them off until they put up their trapped leg, then he underhooks it and rocks his legs down to sweep them backwards. The main point he stressed was how the bottom leg swings up then down to generate momentum. He took the idea from watching Marcelo do a sweep like this and knowing how Marcelo swings his legs to rock up to the back without posting his hands.

Trog and I did the two drills I described above, with the two main hip movements to rock under them. I explained to Trog how I wanted to develop each movement separately though I felt they'd blend together in action. He thought so too.

From a static start, it's can be hard to get them going, especially the backroll entry. I found the side-to-side rock is better for getting deep on a single leg, while the back roll put me further up (so I'm underhooking the other knee). Viewing the motions without a partner, I saw one scoots me down the mat (towards my feet) and the other moves me up (towards my head).

Trog had me do each type on him so he could see how he had to post to defend so we could better understand how the top man's weight and posture are effected. The backroll puts weight on their far hand (opposite of the trapped leg) and lift them higher while rocking under makes them walk forward on both hands equally.

We tried out the different arm positions from each position. Still having trouble getting low enough on the single leg to hug it with my head in the right spot. Tried the two other sweeps Jeff shows and saw how they play off of the side-to-side swinging of the legs and hips.

Sparred for a couple rounds with another purple belt who's around my weight but much stronger. Got to play this game a little.

Worked from long distance half guard, feeling out the position and stopping him from getting the underhook or crossface or flattening me out. Tried to pay attention to how he moved around, where he placed his weight, how he changed his base and posture and how this affected his balance. Just focus on keeping good position and grips and preventing him from starting passes.

I got the same sweep twice in the match. Threatening the kimura got him to posture up, giving me space to dive in and underhook his leg, gable gripping my hands. Hid my face against his thigh and covered my head with my left arm. Used my elbow and forearm in his ribs to keep his weight off. Use a combination of the backroll and swinging hip movements to get under him, like I thought I would need to. Switching back and forth between them each time he based against one. He tried sitting on me but felt me coming out the backdoor so he gave me an easy sweep by letting himself fall over. Came up directly into a half guard pass with my arm still under his leg, now stacking it.

Next I sparred for a while with a white belt. A little bigger than me and fairly strong.

He was much more aggressive about wrapping my neck and trying to guillotine me when I was underneath and trying to go deep. Still got sweeps with my head wrapped up and wasn't in danger of choking since I never let him get it tight and I'd grab his wrists, but it was annoying.

So I started acting faster and using a different kind of energy. "Jolted" the backroll, jamming my knee up into his chest and shoved hard in the armpit. Bounced him up for a quick second and brought my bottom knee in. Played something like reverse DLR, getting the ankle grab sweep. The times he did defend the sweep and start grabbing my head, I'd swivel back out to long distance half guard and protect my face and grips.

Hope to work on this more on the weekend.
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:46 PM   #59 (permalink)

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Did passing the guard drilling where I was out in the middle, the rest of the school cycling though on top.

Went against the same purple belt from Friday. Switched from full to half guard with a framing posture. Fought for a good while, several minutes. He kept trying the scissors pass, sprawling passes, reverse scarf passing. The forearm in the throat screwed most of these up for him. Would turn his face the wrong way and keep pressure on his throat. Went through a mental checklist: Am I controlling the space? Am I turned on my side? Am I defending the cross face? Do I have good grips?

He did get an underhook at one point. I treated it like my old half butterfly game and took the overhook. I kept shrimping out and putting my knee in, stretching him back and grabbing his outside wrist. Kept scooting back and trying to pull my bottom knee out like I wanted to go to full guard. When he postured up a little and used his hand to try to push my knee back in, I bumped to create space then reached over for a kimura.

He was able to grab his thigh to defend but I held on to the kimura grip. Stayed relaxed with it hugged tight to my chest and concentrated on scooting my hips to a better angle; didn't want to burn myself out try to finish it with arm strength. I'd jerk on it and put pressure on when I felt him trying to fix his positioning, so he'd have to switch his focus to defending the arm instead. Got a strangely easy sweep to the side of the kimura'd arm but bridging and rolling towards that side.

Asked him about it later and he told me he felt I was about to get the submission and he'd rather give up position first.

Went with a tall, skinny blue belt. A little below my weight. Played the same game, going for the kimura. I got the grip and was using it to play with his posture while I rocked him back and forth and side to side with my hip movement. Kept scooting to a better angle to finish and he started trying to roll out to escape. I went with it and did a backroll. His leg came out at some point, and he was "past" my guard, but I kept my grip and carried through with the moment. I shoved his kimura'd arm into him as I drove up to my knees and he flipped over.

Went with the purple belt again. Had a much harder time. He finally managed to back out and I switched to butterfly guard. Went for a hook sweep and he jumped over it. Scrambled to recover guard. He hugged and pinned both my legs. Shoved his head and got up on my elbow but he muscled through it and finally passed. Nothing technical, but that's what I get from a guy who told me "Strength is part of my game."

Sparred with a white belt. Maybe a little bigger than me and strong. Just worked on maintaining the long distance half guard and then diving into traditional or deep sweeps, and switching between traditional and deep. Kept switching between the two main hip movements to see how to get them working in combination.

Finally got to use this position:



Super deep half guard on a single leg. Head right under their hips, actually resting on their other thigh. Their leg laying along your entire body, in line with your spine. An ankle over their ankle, a hook under it, way down at the end of their leg. Both arms hugging a single thigh.

Got a sweep by grabbing his arm with both hands and hugging it to his thigh. Rocked his weight to his rear then spun around his leg and came to my knees to sweep him and come on top.

General Notes:

I saw what Zankou was saying about turning the toes down and hooking their ankle with my foot. Depending on whether I wanted to pull them in or push them back, I'd switch between crossing my ankle on the outside or opening them and hooking the ankle.

The more they postured back and avoided the backroll motion and kimura, the easier it was to get an underhook use the rocking hip motion to carry their leg over me and go deep. I'm wondering if their attempts to keep away and not let me under their outside leg makes it easier to get deep under the single leg, like in the photo above. Will experiment with that.

It's still not feeling natural and I feel awkward going for a lot of the positions and sweeps, but I'm happy with the success so far. These look like they'll be a fun and interesting 2 months.
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Old 07-16-2007, 11:55 PM   #60 (permalink)

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Reposting my goals from the other thread, but only the ones relevant to this half guard game:

- Focus on generating momentum from my core and using my entire body in unison.
- Train transitions instead of just static positions.
- Train combinations instead of isolated techniques.
- Be fully committed to my movements, transitions and techniques.
- Fight for underhooks more from all over.
- Finally get a decent underhook-take-the-back half guard game.
- Also work on the out-the-back-door deep half guard.
- Revisit things I thought didn't suit me before and see if they do now.
- Spot bad habits and eliminate them.
- Be aggressive. B-E AGGRESSIVE.
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