[Fight_Song]

Originally Posted by Zankou

This is why I like to control the crossfacing arm as the setup to the position. If you control the crossfacing arm and drive it over you, he doesn't have much chance to keep his legs tight, because you are spinning his upper body too far and he can't come back. If he does suck his leg tight somehow, you can drive into him for a sweep since he has no base from his arm or leg on that side.

You really need a gi to get that much control over the arm though. Also a gi makes it much easier to grab his pants at the knee and end up in my preferred "elbow and knee" dominating position.

The time I get into trouble with this is when I can't get both arms into the space between his leg and his crossfacing arm -- one of them is still on the underhook side. Then you are screwed. Hard to do anything if you just have one arm and the guy is laying on top of you. I need to figure out some options from there, as it seems to be the most serious problem I run into (a purple belt consistently catches me in this hapless position, then sits there working for the kimura or mount).

I see it where you're going now. I kinda use it similar. I like to cup the bicep and follow their arm to block the crossface. It's distracting and keeps them busy usually and I work my underhook while they worry about their crossface.

When they pass their arm completely over my head, I don't follow because they'd catch my arm over my face, and I usually tuck my elbow into my hip and that's the only time I work a wedge position. They usually sit up and with nothing holding me down I just do my "Navy HG sweep" by coming to the top.

I've drilled the wedge movements and they're really fun. We just have a ton of wrestles and scramble-artists so I may escape the HG but it's hard to get control if they just scramble to neutral.


In your last paragraph when you only have one hand in the wedge and your other is an underhook and you get stuck, try to use my ankle-lacer HG sweep (aka navy hg sweep). If you don't get that one, why aren't you catching his foot (of his free leg) and passing it to your underhook arm and sweeping? If his leg is posted out, you wedge under him and come out the butt. Or you pull FG. If he's sitting back and not smashing you, shoulder pressure into him and keep your underhook, but use your free hand to base up. You can stand here and go neutral or turtle. He will have the whizzer so just know about it and your defensive options. If you're lazy he can triangle you when your free hand posts though so look for that coming. Make the posture.

If you stand and he has the whizzer, you need to face him or throw him asap. If he has his hips next to yours, he will throw you unless you do it first.

[Zankou]

The problem is that he turns away from me as in reverse scarfhold. That switch of the hips effectively hides his leg from the arm I do have in the pocket (it is down by my hips), and with his weight on my upper body, I can't get any space to drive into him. Not to mention he is generally trying to kimura my "left behind" arm and/or put the other leg over into mount.

Sucks. On the positive side, I have been applying the same position from top half guard to others, and it really sucks for them too.

[Aesopian]

Thanks for all the feedback, guys. I'm seriously considering everything you say and I'm going to try it out. Can't wait to get on the mats and try it all and pound out the rough edges in sparring.

[Aesopian]

Originally Posted by Zankou

The problem is that he turns away from me as in reverse scarfhold. That switch of the hips effectively hides his leg from the arm I do have in the pocket (it is down by my hips), and with his weight on my upper body, I can't get any space to drive into him. Not to mention he is generally trying to kimura my "left behind" arm and/or put the other leg over into mount.

Sucks.

I haven't had much trouble with the reverse scarf hold passes since I worked on Stephan Kesting's counters from his latest DVD. I actually learned it first from Mike Sweeney, a brown belt in Canada who shot some footage, but Stephan shows nearly the same thing. I think Saulo shows something like it too.

What's important is not letting your arms get trapped or pinned. Keeping the underhook at this point usually puts you in a kimura. Instead, get your arms into a tight "boxing" posture (elbows in, hands by face) and use your elbows in his back/ribs to force him down towards your hips. Don't let him slide up towards your head and kill your arms.

From there you can reach down and grab his outside ankle. Your other hands grabs his belt, keeping your elbow against his back. Quickly put in your butterfly hook, then lift him (with the hook, by the belt and by the ankle) and switch your hips under him and take out your bottom leg. You can take the back from here but most people turn to face you too fast and you end up with half guard on the other leg instead.

That's the one I use. There's another version that Trog uses a lot. Get your arms in the same position (elbows jammed into his back). Turn towards his hips and get up on your elbow. Keeping your other elbow in his back, grab his belt. The moment he frees his leg to pass, switch your hips hard and throw him on his face by yanking his belt. At the same time, scoot your hips out and pull your bottom knee through. Again, you may be able to take his back but usually they turn and you end up in full or half guard.

[Zankou]

Originally Posted by Aesopian

I haven't had much trouble with the reverse scarf hold passes since I worked on Stephan Kesting's counters from his latest DVD. I actually learned it first from Mike Sweeney, a brown belt in Canada who shot some footage, but Stephan shows nearly the same thing. I think Saulo shows something like it too.

What's important is not letting your arms get trapped or pinned. Keeping the underhook at this point usually puts you in a kimura. Instead, get your arms into a tight "boxing" posture (elbows in, hands by face) and use your elbows in his back/ribs to force him down towards your hips. Don't let him slide up towards your head and kill your arms.

I am fine if I can get both arms behind him into reverse scarf. You have all sorts of options then. The problem is that he is extremely good at trapping one arm behind (generally because I am going to half guard from a mount escape, or some other such thing).

Maybe I'll check out Kesting's dvd again and see what he says about such a thing. I recall him explaining defensive positions for the arm that is caught behind, but not really explaining how to get out of the position.

[codemonkey76]

this thread has more info. than most 10 page threads... most of it lost me though

[Zankou]

Originally Posted by codemonkey76

I found out last night i can only work on my goals against guys i can dominate...
If I am rolling with one of the higher belts i am not normally in a position to impose my game

Yes, that's a basic rule. If you are trying out some new move and are totally retarded at it, don't go trying to work out its details against a 250 pound purple belt. Waste of time. Find a low level blue belt or high white, your size or smaller, and start from there.

This is particularly necessary for sweeps, most of which require such coordination and timing that there is no way you can succeed with them at first against advanced opponents. Start using them against small, less skilled opponents, then work your way up. Almost every sweep I use I initially thought was completely retarded and useless. Then I start getting it against small weak opponents. Then I get better and better, until I can use it against everyone.

[guardpasser]

Quality thread, worth reading many times. keep it up.

[Aesopian]

First real night of sparring. I'll breakdown how it went for each match. Played this half guard on:

- A tough but relatively new blue belt. Short, squat, strong base. Slightly heavier than me.
- A strong purple belt. Bigger and heavier than me with good base.
- A female purple belt around my weight. Very technical with good balance.
- A female blue belt who's much lighter than me. Very fast with pretty good balance.

We did several rounds of passing the guard with set partners. Bottom man starts in closed guard and tries to sweep or submit; top man works to pass.

I cheated and armbarred the first blue belt once from closed guard, but then decided to stick to my resolution. I wanted to find a way to safely switch from closed to half guard while maintaining space and good grips. I started by getting a framing grip (left forearm across throat, grabbing shoulder or collar and right hand holding the wrist). Scooted my hips out to the left turned on my side. Stepped on his hip with my right foot to create space, then shot the foot between his legs to take half guard.

From half guard, I put my knee in his hip and crossed my feet, like Andreh shows, and kept him stretched away. I felt out the position a bit. He couldn't get an underhook or crossface as long as I stayed in framing posture. He couldn't drive in or sprawl on my leg as long as I kept it shallow on his hip and pointed in hard into him (as opposed to driving my shin across his belly like a scissors sweep). He couldn't back out or properly sprawl because I had his leg hooked with my feet crossed so I could pull him in.

Once I felt I had control of the space and wasn't worried about being crossfaced, I ducked my head in and got the underhook. I balled up to hide my head down by his hips. He leaned back and pummelled back in, but I quickly repummelled and went even deeper. The next time he reached back to pummel, he didn't have the angle to get it. But this made him lean back too far so I was able to get an easy sweep by simply bridging into him and coming to my knees.

We restarted and I got to half guard from closed guard the same way. Felt him out again. This time I tried to get under his free leg, using the Leo Kirby method from earlier, but setting it up with a kimura attempt. I switched between traffic copping his armpit (to turn him away and shift his weight) and gable gripping my hands (to pull his leg on my shoulder and ratchet under). I also found myself protecting my face by covering my head with my left arm, putting it in the same position some people teach to defend the RNC from the back. I'd block their arm, then paw grip it and throw it away from my head so I could traffic cop or gable grip again. I could also protect my face this way while maintaining the gable grip around the leg.

I wasn't able to rock him forward and get underneath him and go out the backdoor because he sunk his weight back and sat on his haunches to close the space. But in doing so, he gave me room and freedom of movement to shoot my underhook in and start working the traditional game. I got another sweep from him somehow by climbing towards his back and bridging and driving into him.

We switched partners and I got the big purple belt. Switched from closed to half the same way. Got in the long distance half guard and controlled him with different grips, switching between framing posture, a hand on each biceps (like Andreh shows), double paw, sliding my right hand up and down his arm (from paw on the biceps down to holding the wrist).

He was trying to setup sprawling passes but I can't my knee up (so he couldn't smash it) and pulled him in with my crossed ankles. He got frustrated and tried to collar choke me. Which crossed his own arm. I simply cross gripped his sleeve and scooted around and climbed on his back.

I clued him in so he didn't do that dumb mistake again. The next time he simply stayed frustrated trying to find an underhook or a crossface or put his weight down or something but I kept my proper positioning.

This time I dove for his free leg and tried to scoot under it. He kept his weight back and wouldn't let me get him rocking forward. But again, his posture gave a chance to switch to the traditional game and work my underhook deep, since I'm already down by his hips. Didn't get a sweep but was able to maintain the half guard position without losing the underhook or getting crossfaced or smashed, which is an achievement in itself.

Later I sparred with a female purple belt. I knew should wouldn't out muscle me but she'd come up with intelligent counters. I was able to pull long distance half guard from the get-go. Gave her more of a chance to start setting up passes to feel how to counter them. She's great at hugging and weaving the legs together and passing over them so I wanted to feed her that a bit and see how to get out. Was able to stop this by keeping my knee hard into her hip, angled up, and keeping my ankles crossed, then hand fighting and getting grips.

Dove deep under her leg as I crunched her on top of me like I wanted to do a backwards roll. If she leaned back to defend, I'd take my knee off the hip and pendulum it out to get a rocking motion going. Swept her by trying to come out the backdoor and having her turn to her back to face me. Let her sweep me from half guard several times so I could return to my game and set it all up again. Did this several times, got several sweeps, including one where I really did do a full backwards roll.

She eventually found a better sense of timing and balance to stop me from diving under her. So I switched to the traditional underhooking game. She started going for a brabo with the gi so I took out my underhook. She got the underhook and sprawled so I wasn't able to bring my knee in. I wanted to (and could have) put my butterfly hook in like I normally would but the ankle injury made that futile. She was able to pass to side control and then take mount. I escaped to half guard and played my half guard some more then we finished up.

The last match was against a light female blue belt. Kept pulling half guard on her and she'd try to immediately hop into a cross knee pass. The knee in her hip blocked her along with the framing posture. I'd move my hips and thighs until they were positioned to block her knee. Worked on the Baret Yoshida sweep from earlier. Kept rocking her up on my main knee, bringing my bottom knee in then playing a reverse DLR style guard. Stretched her base out and did the technical stand-up for the sweep.

Let's see if I can't summarize a few points:

- I did well as long as I entered long distance half guard from a relatively good position. I had trouble getting to it once they'd started getting good grips and pressure from the top. That'll be something to work on.

- My hands can move all over the place to push and hold and shove them them as needed. Either biceps, across the neck, grabbing the collar, grabbing the shoulder, single paw anywhere on their arm, double paw, two hands on a wrist or sleeve, even reaching in and pushing on their hips and knees.

- It seems I can go to the traditional game when the deep one fails, and vice versa, with shades of the two blending as they share grips and positions and sweeps.

- As expected, I need to continue to figure out the timing for when to dive deep and how to get them rocking so I can play with their weight and get into position.

- Keep on keepin' on.

[Aesopian]

Remembered a few more points that are worth noting.

- Several times when I had long distance half guard, they postured back. I didn't like them having a lot of space, so I followed them by getting up on my elbow or hand and pushing into them. I'm not in danger of being crossfaced as long as they sit back, and if they drive in, I lay back down and get my grips again. Thinking about it now, this moment, as they drive back in, is probably a great time to dive deep since their momentum is driving into me.

- One of the sweeps I got (I think on the first blue belt) was a hip bump of sorts from half guard. I kept going for wrist control, pulling his elbow over, attempting kimuras. He postured back and I followed him up and threw my hips up and switched them to sweep him over.

- The long distance half guard baited most of them to try to leg binding pass where they thread their arm between my thighs. I found I could use their grip against them by swinging my knee up like I want to go to Gustavo's quarter guard. Even without me holding their sleeve, by trying to hug my leg they gave me the leverage I needed on their arm to swing their weight forward by flaring my knee out. Will investigate this more.