Greatest Half Guard Thread Ever

[Zankou]

Yes, you have perfectly described (albeit in much more detailed and experienced form) the same problems I have found. Basically the half butterfly sweeps are your only viable way out, but against an experienced or larger opponent, they work really poorly because his hips are facing the wrong way. You kind of have to stall and wait for him to make some sort of mistake. Which is not the kind of game I like to play.

Currently I am thinking that using the free arm to press against his hip may be key, combined with some other move. Basically the simple reguarding move, combined with another option if he defends the reguarding.

I wish we could get Gustavo to weigh in on this one.

[Sherdog_Mutt]

Originally Posted by Zankou

I wish we could get Gustavo to weigh in on this one.

I'm such an idiot. He was here last week and I forgot to ask him about this position. Hopefully, I'll have the chance to talk to him soon. If so, I'll be sure to share with you any feedback he had to offer.

[fightme]

Please make this a permanent thread!!

[jasond]

I finally got a chance to put some of my new half guard stuff to the test tonight. My son and I drilled half guard for about 3 hours Saturday and my wife and I drilled for about an hour Sunday. But, tonight was the first night that I got to try any of this out in live sparring.

We started standing and I got a hip toss to side control and eventually improved to knee-on-belly then mount. At first I was trying to hold on to mount a little too aggressively. Then it clicked and my dumb ass realized that I wasn't getting to work any of my half guard stuff. I went for an armbar pretty much knowing he'd roll with it and took the opportunity to just transition into my guard.

From there I gave him minimal resistance; pretty much asking for him to pass. He started to pass to my left, so I dug my right foot into the back of his left knee to trap it. I used that to bridge up onto my left hip shooting my body into a deep curled position immediately getting my left arm under his right leg and my right arm under his right arm pit (what I believe Aesopian calls "traffic cop").

I moved into an electric chair sweep and moved to side control. We rolled for about 20 minutes straight and somewhere towards the middle of it I had his back. He started working to turn into my guard, so I eased up and let him transition into it. From there I let him work to pass. He started passing on my left side again. This time I used the same set up, but I wanted to try for a different sweep. So instead of going under his leg and gable gripping, I grabbed his foot and reached around with my right arm underhooking the other side; clasped my hands in an s-grip securing his ankle and got an old school sweep to side control.

I was really happy with being able to get to use some of what I'd been working on and see it work out so well against someone who is better than me. He told me after we rolled that every time I shot right into half guard it caught him off because I normally have a tendency to fight the pass until it's too late. Part of that was not having much of a half guard game in the past and the other part was that I feel pretty comfortable playing turtle so after they'd pass, I'd immediately turn into them and start working sweep from turtle guard.

I definitely wanted to say "thanks" to everyone who's contributed to this thread. I haven't been this excited about jits in months.

[Aesopian]

Originally Posted by Sherdog_Mutt

I'm coming onto this thread late and still reading up on the posts but I just had a suggestion for you Aesopian regarding your 2 biggest concerns: getting onto your side and getting the underhook.

A trick that Gustavo Machado showed me (as a little guy he says this really helped him out) was to simply shove the inside portion of the untrapped knee. It's weird but this results in you stretching out the opponent's base (easing any weight he's using to crush you) and you naturally turn onto your side when this happens. Moreover, at this juncture you've created a sliver of space to help you obtain the proper underhook. I've used this tip a ton of times against some of the behemoths that I roll against and found it very effective.

Thanks for the tip. I've actually used it before but never really thought about why. Just found myself shoving anything in sight when I was worried about getting crushed. Now I'll start doing it on purpose.

[Zankou]

Yeah, I have been shoving the hip as I fight for the underhook, just like a side control escape. Now I guess I may start trying the knee.

[Aesopian]

Thought of one more point. I'm always looking for specific reactions so I can understand the timing. There are times I can get deep and can't, can get the underhook and can't, etc. What exactly are these times?

Still looking, but I've spotted one. I found myself getting deep under people repeatedly when the following happened:

- I'd have a framing posture and hold their wrist, like I was getting ready for a kimura.
- They're keep struggling to free their wrist, but I'd keep on it and regrab as many times as needed.
- They finally got frustrated and brought their knee forward and tried to use it to break the grip and pin my arm.
- In effect though, they just gave me that leg. I didn't even need to dive under. From here I'm underhooking the leg or can go for a toe grab sweep.

Nothing major, but it's these little moments that I'm looking for since they add up into the total game.

[Aesopian]

Don't think I said it before, but I recalled one of the earlier realizations I had about half guard that started making it really work. I'll jot it down for completeness' sake.

As I've always said, I hate being crossfaced. Utterly despise it. So I started really looking at what I was doing that let it happen when I played half guard. I realized I simply let go of the paw grip too soon. I'd get an underhook then be impatient and go for a sweep when I was still too high up, so my head and face were exposed. I started hanging on to the paw grip until I had my head buried down at their hips, like I wanted to listen to their hip bone.

The reason this works is because they will need to post their weight on their hands to maintain balance when I'm that low on them, and if they try to posture back and reach my face, they off-balance themselves.

This ties into the last point about them trying to break the paw grip with the knee. I'll be fairly deep under them but still be reaching up to hold their arm. They see the arm out stretched and try to pin it with the leg. Which, like I said, simply gives me exactly what I want.

Also related to defending the crossface and being patient, I trained myself to reset back to long distance half guard, even if I was fairly deep, if I felt my head was getting too controlled. I want to work on recovering and protecting myself when I am deep and run into trouble, but it's helped a lot to be able to back out and start over. I get my good safe grips again then start over.

[Sherdog_Mutt]

One aspect of half-guard that was stressed to me was to simply be more patient. Unlike some of the other guards out there, if you have the proper controls you can afford to be patient. Gordo told me that it's almost a lazy man's guard.

By the way, I just learned a really cool half-butterfly guard sweep last week. Naturally, I want to share this with my sherdog brethren. As with most half-butterfly guard sweeps, this one works beautifully regardless of how big the opponent is and even if the opponent has won the cross-face + underhook battles. From the half-butterfly guard position you:

1) Use your hook and trapping leg to bring the trapped leg up and close to your hips.

2) Use your arm (the one that's supposed to be underhooking) to grab the foot of the trapped leg.

3) Slide your hooking leg in so that your shin is now in contact with the inside portion of the trapped knee.

4) Pull the trapped foot towards you while you kick out with your shin on the trapped knee. This places a lot of torque on the knee and your opponent's weight should already be shifting backwards away from you.

5) Sit up to complete sweep and enjoy round of applause from half-guard lovers everywhere.

Awesome awesome sweep that has been working very well for me against large guys.

[Zankou]

That sounds very similar to the reverse DLR sweep. I did not know you can do it from half butterfly tho.

Though effective, the strain it places on your training partner's knee concerns me a bit.

There are some cool sweeps from z-guard I have seen on Diogo's dvd that are somewhat similar. Basically you get up on an elbow, and your underhooking arm grabs the pants by the shin of the trapped foot. Then you drive into the guy and back. He has no base to stop you.