First Experience & Which BJJ School?

[Rocket Man]

I checked out Renzo Gracie's school and Alliance and am trying to decide between the two.

Renzo's: Nice space. Had a locker room with showers. Bunch of Brazilian chicks hanging out. Frat type atmosphere with 6-7 blackbelts hanging around.

I was given a 30 minute session with one of the blackbelts covering some basics. The instruction was very good. Then I stayed and watched the whitebelt class of about 20-25 students. The class was 1 hour, and I was disappointed they didn't let me participate.

There were 2 blackbelts leading the class. Again, the instruction was very good. They did warmups, showed about 4 techniques and had the class drill them. There was no free rolling.

Cost: about $189/mo. unlimited + registration. Automatic deduction from your credit card or bank account, and you are committed for 1 year. Here's the kicker: you must attend 3 classes a week or will be kicked out permanently.


Alliance: Small shitty space atop a bar. No locker room. 1 shower that I doubt works.

The head instructor was teaching and I didn't get to see Marcelo Garcia. The instructor's english was so-so, and he didn't have the great step by step instructions like at Renzo's.

The class was 1.5 hours and there were about 13 students (3 blues, 1 purple, the rest whitebelts). I was allowed to participate. The warmups were longer and more intense than at Renzo's. The instructor showed 1 technique (an escape) that we drilled with resistance. The last half of the class was free rolling from knees (45 minutes).

Cost: Same as Renzo's for unlimited, but no commitment.

I did the live resistance drills with 3 whitebelts who had 3-4 stripes. Although I have no formal experience with grappling, I've read almost 10 BJJ books, watched PRIDE/UFC, watched BJJ instructionals on Youtube, and read discussions on this grappling forum. Plus I rassle with my GF, who was a former athlete. I think I did pretty well since I could see their sub attempts and fight them off, and even put one into halfguard and was about to pass to mount when time was called. (Now that I've seen the Functional Halfguard vid (thanks Aesopian!), I realize sliding my knee across his bottom arm to pass to mount is pretty shitty and sets me up for the foot grab sweep).

I was allowed to free roll with the purple for a few minutes. He was a little guy who I thought was rolling close to 100% even though the instructor told to take it easy on the newbie. I was being mostly defensive and he swept me from butterfly into his guard. He tried to armbar me twice and a triangle, but I saw it coming and was able to defend. The entire time in his guard, the mantra "both arms in or both arms out" was in my head.

He eventually swept me to my guard and the fucker pulled the can opener on me! WTF? Is this a dick move to neck crank a newbie? I opened up my guard because I read on this forum that was the way to relieve pressure, LOL! Eventually, I went to all fours to stop his pass and he took my back. I turtled tight and rolled forward but he held on and tried to RNC me. I controlled his choking wrist with one hand (I guess he didn't watch Stephan Kesting's RNC video on how to avoid that, LOL), and kept his hook out with the other hand. Eventually, he gave up which was good because I was gassed by then and couldn't resist him getting to a deep north south stalemate, and I tapped because I was too gassed to get his crotch out my face. Tap out due to crotch!

It was really cool that I could see the sub attempts coming just from studying shit from books and the internet. However, I did not see the sweeps. It's probably because it's not what I've focused on. The whole feel of gi rolling was not what I expected. Because of the gi it was slower, more technical, and a bit suffocating, and not as smooth and explosive as when I rassle no-gi with the GF. I was also not used to fighting their gi grips or knowing how to use them, although I did grab my own gi to defend a kimura attempt.

Anyway, which school should I choose?

One has better, more, and structured instruction, but a fucked up 1 year/3x a week commitment. The other has more free rolling and Marcelo Garcia, but only 1 technique taught per class. For some reason, I'm leaning towards Alliance.

[Aesopian]

Originally Posted by Rocket Man

Thanks Aesopian!

You're welcome.

Marcelo Garcia is a big draw but I'd kill to train at Renzo's. My instructor goes up to NYC once a year just to train at his academy. I know contracts scare off people (like you) but they are smart for a business (especially if you're paying the rent that Renzo is).

You can't really go wrong with either though.

[irc]

I would go with Renzo's, but I train at a Renzo black belt school, so I'm a little biased. We also have the dumb contract, with a minimum of 2x per week. The 2x/week is not enforced, though - I mean, that is a goal, but they don't kick anyone out if they miss a week. I would be suprised if they enforced the rule at Renzo's, especially if you tell them you'll be out or whatnot.

Regarding the contract - they would have to sue you for breach of contract to enforce the agreement, which they are NOT going to do. If you had to break the contract, I imagine if you talked to them about it, they would let you out. But like I said, they are not going to enforce those contracts. They could, however, report it to credit reporting agencies. However, I also doubt they would go to this level. I have never heard of the contracts actually being enforced.

[bugsmeanie44]

You can't go wrong with either, as far as I'm concerned. I'd choose the one with the more convenient times and location. Honestly.

[bugsmeanie44]

Originally Posted by Aesopian

You're welcome.

Marcelo Garcia is a big draw but I'd kill to train at Renzo's. My instructor goes up to NYC once a year just to train at his academy. I know contracts scare off people (like you) but they are smart for a business (especially if you're paying the rent that Renzo is).

You can't really go wrong with either though.

Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to say that the contract thing at Renzo's doesn't seem like that big of a deal. As I understand it, they'll let you out of it before your year is up, but you'd never be allowed to there again (unless there are mitigating circumstances). Also, you're exaggerating a bit about the 3x/week. If you can only go 2x one week, then you can go 4x the next. You can make up classes. And if you're injured, of course they'd understand. I actually like this idea. What I didn't like was that students in the blue belt program are only allowed to take a max of 3 classes per week.

[The_Twister]

That sucks that you can only take a max of 3 classes as a blue belt, whats up with that?

That does`nt sound like "unlimited" training to me.

[Balto]

Don't let the contract thing scare you. People who say that a contract is a sign of a bad martial arts school know absolutely nothing about how to run a school.

When you're running a school, you have fixed expenses every month such as rent, utilities, insurance, payroll, etc. If you don't pay these bills, you are out of business. Period.

It's very important to set up your business so that you don't run into this liquidity problem. Even if you are solvent (people owe you the money you need to pay off the bills), the landlord and power companies don't give you extensions. Therefore, you need to have a guaranteed monthly income to stay in business.

The automatic credit card payment every month is actually an awesome idea and not something to be afraid of at all. It guarantees Renzo a regular monthly income that he can use to pay his bills.

Also, if you quit, they will let you out of the contract. It is just not worth it for them to try and enforce it. The reason the contract is there is for the business end only and isn't a scam in any way.

[bugsmeanie44]

Originally Posted by The_Twister

That sucks that you can only take a max of 3 classes as a blue belt, whats up with that?

That does`nt sound like "unlimited" training to me.

Students in the "Blue Belt Program" are actually white belts. It seems like it's a new policy; Soid, colinm, and a couple of other guys who train at Renzo's say they've never heard of it. But I'm just repeating what the program director told me.

Anyway, I really do believe that people should take the convenience factor into account. An extra fifteen minutes of commute time = fifteen minutes that you COULD HAVE BEEN training.

Also, I've done quite a bit of research into NYC BJJ schools, so feel free to ask me any questions. I'm no authority, of course, but I remember how lost I was when I was trying to choose a school.

[The_Twister]

So for your $189 a month unlimitied how often can you actually train? Can you only go to certain classes? Can you turn up and roll anytime during the day?

[ks1911shooter]

A friend of mine trains at Renzo's, and I took 2 classes there before and was given the contract details. Long story short, my school had relocated further away. Being that I work in the city, I didn't think I would make it to classes on time, and since Renzo is right here, it was a strong option. In the end, I decided I was very happy with my school (the instructor and students there are awesome), so the extra drive there is worth it to me.

Anyhow, no need to be scared of the contract at Renzo's, as others have stated. You don't need to worry about a minimum number of times/week, although they tell you that they don't want white belts to train more than 3-4x/week. My friend switched jobs not long after he signed up there, and because of his long hours, he couldn't make it to class for months. No harm to his contract other than he was just wasting money away. In fact, they called him once to see if everything was ok.

Another former co-worker of mine used to train there too, until his job also got too busy. He once had to stop for 7 months due to a back injury. They just put a hold on his contract, and let him resume once he was ready to start again.

And no, as a white belt, you can only attend the "blue belt program" classes. You cannot participate in open mat sessions until you are at least a 3-stripe white I believe. And I think the same rule applies to the no-gi classes too.