The Cross-Collar Choke Thread

[Jagcorps_esq]

Originally Posted by cheath

I don't think I've ever hit a lapel choke on anybody in the 15 months I've been doing BJJ, except a couple Ezekial's a long time ago. For reason, I just don't see the gi as a tool to use like that.

Cross collar choke is where you reach say your left hand to their left collar palm up, then slide your right hand UNDER that to their right collar, thus making an X across their throat, then flare both elbows up towards their head right?

Any good instructionals? Man, saying out loud that I can't even remember ever getting a collar choke on someone in over a year of training sheds a whole other light on it! It's pretty damn problematic!

Your elbows ride your legs back...towards yourself. You attempt to put your chest through the top of the "x" you created with your hands.

As far as the grips? There are many ways to do it and many ways to get there.

[Simco]

Originally Posted by DarceBrabo

Not to mention the fact that he's huge, has ridiculous grip strength, and can bench press over 350lbs. Im sure that has ALOT to do with the effectiveness of his cross collar choke from mount.

I'd love to hear how bench strength is relevant a cross collar choke.

[wwolf8]

Originally Posted by cheath

Cross collar choke is where you reach say your left hand to their left collar palm up, then slide your right hand UNDER that to their right collar, thus making an X across their throat, then flare both elbows up towards their head right?

Right idea but your elbows never leave your side. You pull them in with your elbows glued to your side, as you turn your wrists.

[Simco]

Originally Posted by cheath

I don't think I've ever hit a lapel choke on anybody in the 15 months I've been doing BJJ, except a couple Ezekial's a long time ago. For reason, I just don't see the gi as a tool to use like that.

Cross collar choke is where you reach say your left hand to their left collar palm up, then slide your right hand UNDER that to their right collar, thus making an X across their throat, then flare both elbows up towards their head right?

Any good instructionals? Man, saying out loud that I can't even remember ever getting a collar choke on someone in over a year of training sheds a whole other light on it! It's pretty damn problematic!

There's no way you've been doing BJJ for 15 months and still think you flare your elbows out for a lapel choke.

[MickCollins]

Originally Posted by cheath

I don't think I've ever hit a lapel choke on anybody in the 15 months I've been doing BJJ, except a couple Ezekial's a long time ago. For reason, I just don't see the gi as a tool to use like that.

Cross collar choke is where you reach say your left hand to their left collar palm up, then slide your right hand UNDER that to their right collar, thus making an X across their throat, then flare both elbows up towards their head right?

Any good instructionals? Man, saying out loud that I can't even remember ever getting a collar choke on someone in over a year of training sheds a whole other light on it! It's pretty damn problematic!

A few weeks ago, a black belt filling in for my instructors did a whole class on the cross choke. I hated it before that and now I dig it. People think its simple and get frustrated when they can't do it but there's a bunch of detail to it. For myself, the most important thing I found I screwed up was not getting deep enough grips. I would think I had deep grips but when he showed me how he did it, I realized I was screwing that detail up. I also realized that my crappy mount control didn't help my mount offense.

As to Roger, I think his size helps a ton since he seems to have an incredible base in the mount. Its probably like trying to push a buick off you when he gets mount. But, in my limited experience, I've watched black belts get simple stuff wwaayyy more than lower belts. I watched a black belt rolling with purple and brown belts sub all of them with the basic armbar. Good black belts have the details and experience down so well that when they decide to go for the simple moves, you'd best have the perfect defense or its going to happen. Good black belts also know the little tricks to help improve the chances of landing simple moves. The BB that was teaching us the cross choke showed us a simple way to get the deeper grip needed that made me think "Whoah, why the hell didn't I ever think to do that?".

[armtriangle]

Originally Posted by MickCollins

BB that was teaching us the cross choke showed us a simple way to get the deeper grip needed that made me think "Whoah, why the hell didn't I ever think to do that?".

So what was the detail?

Incidentally, my instructor has a mount like this... he is also 6'4, so maybe the wide base has something to do the immovable mount aspect.

[MUFC]

Originally Posted by armtriangle

So what was the detail?

Incidentally, my instructor has a mount like this... he is also 6'4, so maybe the wide base has something to do the immovable mount aspect.

Wouldn't the same be shown for people who are relatively tall for their weight class? A 6'1, 155lb dude holding mount would have a similar effect? (i'm not trying to make a point, genuinely asking)

[Lookyoung]

Originally Posted by cheath

I don't think I've ever hit a lapel choke on anybody in the 15 months I've been doing BJJ, except a couple Ezekial's a long time ago. For reason, I just don't see the gi as a tool to use like that.

Cross collar choke is where you reach say your left hand to their left collar palm up, then slide your right hand UNDER that to their right collar, thus making an X across their throat, then flare both elbows up towards their head right?

Any good instructionals? Man, saying out loud that I can't even remember ever getting a collar choke on someone in over a year of training sheds a whole other light on it! It's pretty damn problematic!

I am with you on this. I have trouble with most of the collar chokes and have never landed this choke. I don't go for it much. It seems like when I do go for its easy for the guy to trap my hand and buck me off. I suck at collar chokes period. The only gi choke that I am half way good at is the baseball bat choke from knee on belly.

My ezeqiel is tight as hell in drilling but when I go for it in training it seems like the guy fights it off even though it appears to me that I have the perfect position its just that I can't get my second hand in tight enough.

[Oliver Geddes]

Originally Posted by Jagcorps_esq

I don't really think that's a stretch.

I can go throw 280 right now without even working out (I did it about three weeks ago, just goofing around) just based on strength gained from rolling. I easily did over 350 when putting a bit of focus into it when playing football...and I was not a serious bencher.

I imagine Roger works a lot harder than I do on a daily basis and probably does weight training to supplement his BJJ. He's no small guy at 6'4 and 220 lbs.

350 does not seem out the realm of possibilities for him.

Oh, sure. I agree it's not out of the realm of possibilities. I've pushed 220 and I weight about 160 and haven't weight trained for any period of time. That said, he's also not very big on the weightlifting and having watched him bench, I'm just curious where DB comes up with his rather specific figure of 350lbs? Unless there's some kind of training video out there that I'm missing.

In short, yes, he's very big, yes he has insane grip strength, but his weightlifting strength isn't fantastic. Now his jiujitsu strength is a different issue, but we're not talking about that. ^_^

Take care,

Stalks

[MickCollins]

Originally Posted by armtriangle

So what was the detail?

I told him that sometimes, its a pain getting the second hand in for two reasons:1) the collar is real tight and they can just move their head over to help block and 2) the dude has that side hand defending. So, Jason(real good BB, nice dude) untucked that side of the gi and basically used it to pin/push back the guy's arm which also made sticking the second hand in a bunch easier.