The Cross-Collar Choke Thread

Sherdog_Mutt · 06-08-2009, 01:56 PM

The Roger Gracie thread and the latest mundials results got me really thinking hard about this move. The cross-collar choke is probably one of the first submissions that many of us learned. As we progressed in BJJ, we all learned how to defend it. Most of us who have been doing BJJ for years have developed a good cross-collar choke defense (otherwise we would never have progressed, let alone learned how to pass the guard).

In fact I would venture to say that unless your last name is Gracie, no other high level BJJ competitor nails it with any regularity. What do you guys think? Is there some kind of Gracie family secret to nailing this choke? Is it the fact that they've been practicing the choke since they were toddlers?

I know what some of you guys may say... that the choke is simply a function of good technique. Yet I can think of no other top level BJJ blackbelts (not named Gracie) whom have consistently gotten this submission to work for them in competition.

awkwardpenguin · 06-08-2009, 01:59 PM

First one I learned was either bow and arrow or the baseball or Ezekiel idk, collar chokes ftw

Jagcorps_esq · 06-08-2009, 02:02 PM

I think part of it is a certain sense that it's not available at that level.

People all the time tell themselves that certain things work on newbs, but don't work later on. However, we see at the black belt level that fundamentals are really where it's at.

The Gracies have always been about simply perfecting the fundamentals, because that's really all you need to be successful.

Thaiboxer10000 · 06-08-2009, 02:06 PM

^^^^ true that.

nefti · 06-08-2009, 02:11 PM

xande also has a nasty cross choke from mount.

Sherdog_Mutt · 06-08-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagcorps_esq

I think part of it is a certain sense that it's not available at that level.

I agree with what you're saying on a certain level. However, when I see someone like Roger steamroll his competition with this move. . . I have to wonder what is it specifically about his cross-collar choke technique that sets it apart?

The grip? It seems like the same deep collar grip that we've all been taught.

The timing? I don't see how timing plays too much of a role in this choke for him?

The weight shift? I'm sure proper weight shift into the choke is key but how is he doing it any differently.

Positioning of forearms and elbows? Perhaps, but it looks pretty vanilla to me.

It's easy for us to just chalk up Roger's ability to nail this choke to "perfect technique". I guess what I am truly interested in is what specifically about his technique makes him so good at it?

GracieMMABarra · 06-08-2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherdog_Mutt

It's easy for us to just chalk up Roger's ability to nail this choke to "perfect technique". I guess what I am truly interested in is what specifically about his technique makes him so good at it?

I know it's going to sound dumb but Roger's commitment and confidence in using a front choke sets him apart from the rest. People are already psyched out of his game before even stepping on the mat. Roger's game is known by everyone in the entire area yet nobody can stop it. Mentally people are broken by the time he scores the mount and well, it's only a matter of time.

Jagcorps_esq · 06-08-2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherdog_Mutt

It's easy for us to just chalk up Roger's ability to nail this choke to "perfect technique". I guess what I am truly interested in is what specifically about his technique makes him so good at it?

I think it has to be his ability to finish them in other ways too. I mean, it's not like he never does anything else.

I think he also hits different variations on the choke and uses his body to block their ability to see. He uses the position to allow the domination. Of course, isn't the whole point of mount to be able to dominate?

It seems to me that his real skill is simply maintaining the mount without appearing to make any effort.

RadBoy · 06-08-2009, 02:30 PM

He steamrolls his comp with this move from the mount, not the guard. His mount is one of the best. He almost never gives up position and once he gets the mount the fight is over. I think the focus should be more on the position then the sub.

philodox · 06-08-2009, 02:34 PM

I watched him take out 3 guys on Saturday with the cross collar... it seems like his body is just really long (he's 6'4"!) with long legs... it lets him cross his feet in the mount and stretch out over his opponent. When he's choking his head is almost on the floor, and it seems like it gives him a significant advantage...