Catch verses BJJ - Inoki rolls with Wahid Ismail and Allan Goes - Page 7

Cachimbo · 11-14-2009, 12:46 AM

I love these threads where people argue that brown shit is better than black shit, or vice versa. You know what guys, luta livre pwns all. It's like, BJJ, but no gi, but better than catch. The philosophy is like totally awesome and different, so it's better.

By our grappling math, Roger gracie is the best grappler in the world, and he's BJJ. Well, eugenio tadeu beat a bunch of bjj guys. And royce gracie tapped shamrock. So it's like, Bjj beats catch, but luta livre beats bjj. But Tadeu never fought Kimura... So I guess we'll never know which radically different grappling discipline conquers all.

Ryo · 11-14-2009, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knoxpk

Hers a pic of Maeda NOT practicing Catch wrestling.

Here is an article stating Maeda was about 170lbs

Mitsuyo Maeda vs. Hjalmar Lundin | Martial History Magazine

That pic doesn't prove he's practicting Catch wrestlin.. or anything real for that matter.. Infact it looks more like he's doing a demonstration. That doesn't look anything like a real viable submission hold. That's one article out of many. And that's first time I've ever heard Maeda refered to as 170 pounds. Pretty much everything else I've ever read on him states he was a small guy about 5'6 150ish.. Theres some old pics of him teaching students in Brazil... where it's obvious he's just about the smallest guy in the room. I'll see if I can't find em.. used to have them on my computer.

**Kforcer** · 11-14-2009, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goat Meal

The two biggest Catch supporters both have double yellows.

Fat bellies and double yellows on Sherdog. A must have for any Catch practitioner.

I don't get to be considered Sherdog's biggest catch supporter? I demand a refund!

Ryo · 11-14-2009, 01:03 AM

You would deffinately get that award. Infact you and Knoxpx can share it together.

**Kforcer** · 11-14-2009, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frodo

Long before Barnett was Maeda, the founder of BJJ, who beat up a lot of catch wrestlers. That's why it is so funny. They act like it actually validates their martial art. Bernett hasn't won everything, so does that mean that if Barnett lost then catch sucks? Of course not.

It is just a few trolls on this forum who are acting so stupid. Of course, despite his skills, Barnett tends to act stupidly too. Then again, he was never the brightest (throwing away the chance for his biggest fight of his life by cheating). Doesn't mean he doesn't have skills, but his actions jive with the "dumb jock" stereotype.

Josh is a pretty smart guy though; his fluency in Japanese, his ability to teach people with totally different physiques and physical aptitudes, his ability to fit in so well in such a different culture.

He's definitely a smart guy in a lot of ways. And of course, grappling takes some smarts in and of itself, or at least cunning.

**Kforcer** · 11-14-2009, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryo

That pic doesn't prove he's practicting Catch wrestlin.. or anything real for that matter.. Infact it looks more like he's doing a demonstration. That doesn't look anything like a real viable submission hold. That's one article out of many. And that's first time I've ever heard Maeda refered to as 170 pounds. Pretty much everything else I've ever read on him states he was a small guy about 5'6 150ish.. Theres some old pics of him teaching students in Brazil... where it's obvious he's just about the smallest guy in the room. I'll see if I can't find em.. used to have them on my computer.

Renzo thinks he did (practice catch).

**Kforcer** · 11-14-2009, 01:08 AM

You guys need to be a lot more civil to each other and towards other martial artists and fighters in what you guys say to them. The fact is that, even if you guys are getting pissed at one another, minus all the insults and mud-slinging its basically an intelligent discussion. So lets wipe the mud away and let the rest remain and start making our points in such a way that people might receive them, digest them and learn from them rather than simply recoil from them or be angered by them.

zige79 · 11-14-2009, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knoxpk

Hers a pic of Maeda NOT practicing Catch wrestling.

Here is an article stating Maeda was about 170lbs

Mitsuyo Maeda vs. Hjalmar Lundin | Martial History Magazine

Whats the point of your post Knox? Is it because you agree with Supereem that "Maeda and lots of other high level Judo practicioners went to the West to train with Catch fighters after some Catch guys slaughtered the Kodokan's best Judoka's and one of them proclaimed himself the "Judo world champ". I never said that Maeda was undefeated against Catch. I too can post articles of Maeda beating Catch guys including heavyweights under CATCH rules without using joint locks or chokes but its pointless.

**Kforcer** · 11-14-2009, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zige79

Whats the point of your post Knox? Is it because you agree with Supereem that "Maeda and lots of other high level Judo practicioners went to the West to train with Catch fighters after some Catch guys slaughtered the Kodokan's best Judoka's and one of them proclaimed himself the "Judo world champ". I never said that Maeda was undefeated against Catch. I too can post articles of Maeda beating Catch guys including heavyweights under CATCH rules without using joint locks or chokes but its pointless.

Guys like Ed "Strangler" Lewis for example, were open about their incorporation of jiu jitsu, as was Earl Leiderman. I think it is a credit to those legends of catch-wrestling that they were eager to study and devour the insights of judo, jiu jitsu, pehlwani, etc. Similarly, Hayward Nishioka, Gene LeBell, Renzo Gracie and Bruce Lee are all very laudable in their thirst to study various martial arts and learn from them.

I'd certainly presume and hope that a number of Japanese judoka would be likewise laudable after this fashion. Kiguchi Dojo, for example, teaches sambo, amateur wrestling, Greco and catch all under a single roof. Sanae Kikuta trained in the UWFi Snake Pit and prior to that he was a competitive judoka. He also trained with the Pancrase stable and seemingly trains with as many different sorts of styles and approaches as he can. Minowa does the same, Combat Wrestling legend Takefumi Hanai (who won the national championships for Combat Wrestling in a total time of 2:22 seconds) trained in Shaolin kung fu, ninjitsu, judo, amateur wrestling, karate etc. before discovering one of Funaki's instructional texts, borrowing it from a friend and instantly devouring what was within it. Genki Sudo is considered by some to be the greatest product of Pancrase, but he is also a BJJ blackbelt, a Greco-Roman champion and that's probably just scratching the surface. Yuki Nakai trained under Satoru Sayama, competed as an amateur wrestler and a Kosen judoka before becoming a BJJ blackbelt.

Masakatsu Funaki built upon his foundation as a catch-wrestling by studying Brazilian jiu jitsu, sambo, judo, pehlwani and everything he could get his hands on.

The reason people know of the Snake Pit so widely today may well be in large part to the Japanese professional wrestlers seeking out the likes of Roy Wood, Billy Robinson and Karl Gotch to teach them about the style of wrestling they learned within its walls.

The thirst for grappling knowledge seems to be a part of the Japanese grappling tradition. I'd like to think that the legendary judoka of yesteryear were part of that.

GracieMMABarra · 11-14-2009, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kforcer

Guys like Ed "Strangler" Lewis for example, were open about their incorporation of jiu jitsu, as was Earl Leiderman. I think it is a credit to those legends of catch-wrestling that they were eager to study and devour the insights of judo, jiu jitsu, pehlwani, etc. For example, Hayward Nishioka, Gene LeBell, Renzo Gracie and Bruce Lee are all very laudable in their thirst to study various martial arts and learn from them.

Don't forget Rolls.