Catch verses BJJ - Inoki rolls with Wahid Ismail and Allan Goes

[Keltos]

Originally Posted by Supereem

The articles prove that Catch wrestling works

No doubt

Originally Posted by Supereem

Only retards think that Catch somehow came out of fake pro-wrestling in the latter half of the 20th century and copied BJJ/Judo which is complete boooooolshit.

Agreed

[Ryo]

Originally Posted by Supereem

Your article doesnt actually disprove that though...

I'll disprove your idiotic argument with the obvious. Judo fighters did not run and study catch wrestling because they were getting slaughtered.... that simply never happened. Yes some Judoka lost to some Catch guys like Santel... but on the reverse its a well known fact that catch guys lost to Judoka. One blaringly obvious example would be Tokuguro Ito choking Santel out not 6 months later. Santel beat other Judoka and drew with other Judoka. Maeda beat Catch wrestlers as did Ito, Rubber man Higami, Yukio Tani. Almost always being outweighed by quite abit. It's a funny thing because Tokuguro Ito is reported to have lost only one match (to Santel) despite facing many wrestlers. hmm...

[Supereem]

Originally Posted by Ryo

I'll disprove your idiotic argument with the obvious. Judo fighters did not run and study catch wrestling because they were getting slaughtered.... that simply never happened. Yes some Judoka lost to some Catch guys like Santel... but on the reverse its a well known fact that catch guys lost to Judoka. One blaringly obvious example would be Tokuguro Ito choking Santel out not 6 months later. Santel beat other Judoka and drew with other Judoka. Maeda beat Catch wrestlers as did Ito, Rubber man Higami, Yukio Tani. Almost always being outweighed by quite abit. It's a funny thing because Tokuguro Ito is reported to have lost only one match (to Santel) despite facing many wrestlers. hmm...

1) Santel was actually very small, your bum buddy supported this with his article (self ownage).

2) I never claimed that Catch was superior to Judo or that Judo guys never won. I NEVER claimed Santel was undefeated.

3) My argument is that Catch was a REAL MARTIAL ART that WORKED before BJJ even EXISTED! THAT was my argument. I am sorry I was forced to use capital letters to make it clear. You idiots were claiming that Catch was boolshit and that Barnett mainly used BJJ or some crap.

All you guys have done is helped prove that Catch was a viable martial art before the existance of BJJ thus proving that this misconception about Catch being a fake modern invention is false.

It also proves that Catch is not about tables, ladders and chairs and that it has a history of real grappling before the WWF craze that you idiots for some reason associate with being the same as Catch.

[Ryo]

Originally Posted by Supereem

1) Santel was actually very small, your bum buddy supported this with his article (self ownage).

2) I never claimed that Catch was superior to Judo or that Judo guys never won. I NEVER claimed Santel was undefeated.

3) My argument is that Catch was a REAL MARTIAL ART that WORKED before BJJ even EXISTED! THAT was my argument. I am sorry I was forced to use capital letters to make it clear. You idiots were claiming that Catch was boolshit and that Barnett mainly used BJJ or some crap.

All you guys have done is helped prove that Catch was a viable martial art before the existance of BJJ thus proving that this misconception about Catch being a fake modern invention is false.

It also proves that Catch is not about tables, ladders and chairs and that it has a history of real grappling before the WWF craze that you idiots for some reason associate with being the same as Catch.

1. Santel weighed about 180 pounds. You call that small compared to a 150 pound Ito? Or Maeda?

I never said anything about Catch not being a legitamite art. I was just addressing your idiotic statement about Judoka flocking to learn Catch because they were getting owned. Which is obviously rediculous.

[Supereem]

Originally Posted by Ryo

1. Santel weighed about 180 pounds. You call that small compared to a 150 pound Ito? Or Maeda?

I never said anything about Catch not being a legitamite art. I was just addressing your idiotic statement about Judoka flocking to learn Catch because they were getting owned. Which is obviously rediculous.

Actually I have an interesting source on it at home regarding Judoka going to places like the Snake pit and the Kodokan inviteing wrestlers to Japan to teach which I am more than willing to throw at you. It tells us that Catch almost became a craze amongst early Judoka as they were fascinated by it. Alot more than just one or two Judoka wanted to study Catch, it was kinda like a fad. I imagine it was kinda like how everyone wanted to learn Sambo a couple of years ago.

180 pounds isnt that big . Also not all Japanese fighters weigh 150 pounds, Japanese people are capable of being heavyweights, which is much bigger than Santel.

[zige79]

Originally Posted by Supereem

Actually I have an interesting source on it at home regarding Judoka going to places like the Snake pit and the Kodokan inviteing wrestlers to Japan to teach which I am more than willing to throw at you. It tells us that Catch almost became a craze amongst early Judoka as they were fascinated by it. Alot more than just one or two Judoka wanted to study Catch, it was kinda like a fad. I imagine it was kinda like how everyone wanted to learn Sambo a couple of years ago.

When you get home you post that souce of yours. BTW I dont think there was a snake pit back then

[Supereem]

Originally Posted by zige79

When you get home you post that souce of yours. BTW I dont think there was a snake pit back then

Actually I dont think it was the Snake Pit either :S . It was a place in Britain. Memory blank >.<. Ohwell doesnt matter I have the shit I need at home.

[zige79]

Originally Posted by Supereem

2) I never claimed that Catch was superior to Judo or that Judo guys never won. I NEVER claimed Santel was undefeated.

No but you did say that "Maeda and lots of other high level Judo practicioners went to the West to train with Catch fighters after some Catch guys slaughtered the Kodokan's best Judoka's and one of them proclaimed himself the "Judo world champ".

Originally Posted by Supereem

1)
You idiots were claiming that Catch was boolshit and that Barnett mainly used BJJ or some crap.

All you guys have done is helped prove that Catch was a viable martial art before the existance of BJJ thus proving that this misconception about Catch being a fake modern invention is false.

It also proves that Catch is not about tables, ladders and chairs and that it has a history of real grappling before the WWF craze that you idiots for some reason associate with being the same as Catch.

I never and neither did Ryo claim any of that.. I'm sure CACC is a great art which has proven it can hold its own against BJJ, Judo, MMA etc.

[Ryo]

Originally Posted by Supereem

Actually I have an interesting source on it at home regarding Judoka going to places like the Snake pit and the Kodokan inviteing wrestlers to Japan to teach which I am more than willing to throw at you. It tells us that Catch almost became a craze amongst early Judoka as they were fascinated by it. Alot more than just one or two Judoka wanted to study Catch, it was kinda like a fad. I imagine it was kinda like how everyone wanted to learn Sambo a couple of years ago.

Well please post this source, because I would love to see it.

180 pounds isnt that big . Also not all Japanese fighters weigh 150 pounds, Japanese people are capable of being heavyweights, which is much bigger than Santel.

Its big when you compare it to 5'6 150 pound Maeda or Ito who was about the same size. Japanese people are capable of being heavyweights... yes.... but not these particular Japanese people.

[knoxpk]

Hers a pic of Maeda NOT practicing Catch wrestling.




Here is an article stating Maeda was about 170lbs

THE Graeco-Roman Wrestling Tournaments which took place in December, 1909 in Havana, Cuba, and the following month in Mexico City, bring back many memories.

Although the majority of the wrestlers were Europeans, a *** named Konde Koma competed during the final week of the Tournament in Mexico City. Because Konde, a Jiu-jitsu wrestler who had been in Mexico for some time prior to the Tournament had gained a fine reputation for himself, the fans more or less expected that he would fulfill his challenge to throw any one of the contestants in ten minutes, using his own style of wrestling. He claimed to be the Champion of his country and although he could not back up his assertions with any proof in black and white, his actions in the ring were sufficient!

His first appearance during the final week was with a huge Frenchman named Auvray who tipped the scales at 265 pounds. The *** weighed about 170, but the way he tossed the Frenchman around, one would have thought one’s eyes, and not Konde, were doing the tricks. Despite the difference in their avoirdupois, Auvray went sailing back and forth across the stage for almost four minutes before the *** was declared the winner, much to the Frenchman’s relief. After the match I asked Auvray, whom I knew to be strong as an ox, why he didn’t grab the *** and hold him. (I might mention here for those who have never witnessed a Jiu-jitsu match, that contestants in the famous old Oriental sport always wear a jacket.) Auvray replied that everytime he tried, the *** would grasp the former’s sleeves, go down upon his back and put his feet up until they met the Frenchman’s middle, and, with a quick but hard shove, would send the French contestant flying!

Mitsuyo Maeda vs. Hjalmar Lundin | Martial History Magazine

My early training in the collar, elbow and Cornish methods I knew would aid me, because they consisted mostly of tripping and hip-locking. The Cornish wrestling in particular had been very popular among the Irish and Scotch and it was through a few of them I learned what I did of the style. Those tactics and the quick-tripping which I had often practiced were foremost in my mind when I went on the mat with Koma.

Having been accustomed to handling the big Graeco-Roman wrestlers with ease, the *** thought he could do likewise with me, but in the first mix-up I got the better of him, after which my confidence returned. I had no trouble then in winning the match. It was a surprise to the crowd and a set-back for Koma. He had been the hero all week, but as soon as he was beaten the fans, true to form, called him a bum. The Mexicans had thought he could beat anyone, but they had not taken into consideration the fact that I was trained in the catch-as-catch-can style as well as the Graeco-Roman.



I am glad to know that our police-force is taught many of the Jiu-jitsu tricks and holds, for with lightning-speed a man can down another by fast foot work, or even break an arm or leg, should the occasion demand it.